Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/27/2024

  Type:Product Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  On 3/30/24, ***** ****** made contact with ****** ***** from Backyard Pool and Patio of Bloomington, IL. On April 9th ***** emailed **** requesting the price for a 15 x 24 x52 Solstice Gold Colorado oval pool. On Wed. April 10(3:23 pm) **** emailed ***** that color was not in stock and suggested another color that was 15 x 24. Later on April 10 (10:23 pm) ***** emailed **** and asked him to prepare an itemized formal quote for the 15 x 24 Downtown pool. On April 18,2024 we signed a contract which specifically says that we were ordering the 15 x 24 x 52 pool as you will see. **** took our debit card information and said that he needed the entire purchase price to order the pool. He did say in emails that he would try to switch it out but then stopped communicating with us. In desperation we reached out to the owner of the company, **** *****. On 6/5 via a phone conversation, **** agreed to return our $ via a bank transfer the next day. He also said that he would pay for the 25% restocking fee. We didn't hear from him until June 11th after repeated attempts to contact him. Now they are saying that they expect us to pay the restocking fee for their error. Also they won't answer our question to the exact amount that they are willing to refund us. We asking for a complete refund of the $9,757.43 we paid them and storage fees for May 6-present. We are filing this to not only get our $ back but also to warn other about doing business with this company.

  Business Response

  Date: 06/28/2024

  Today marks day 70 of our efforts to resolve the issue with this customer. We have documented all interactions through screenshots and emails.

  
  Initial Agreement and Delivery:
  Before payment, we had several discussions regarding pool sizing. The 15' pool was not available, and the customer agreed to a 12' pool.
  An email confirming this agreement, in which the customer stated "Looks good...", was uploaded. The customer digitally approved the contract and quote for the 12' pool.
  The specific pool was ordered and delivered within a week, and I personally delivered it.

  
  Installation and Complaints:
  The customer canceled a third-party installer multiple times, involving us as intermediaries. Their complaints varied and were inconsistent.
  Initially, there were no complaints about the pool size. Later, the customer claimed the pool size was incorrect.
  We provided evidence, including screenshots and emails, confirming the agreed-upon 12' pool, but the customer remained unsatisfied.
  The customer requested to return the pool and offered to bring it back without providing an ETA. We offered to pick it up and attempted to schedule the pickup.

  
  Refund Issues:
  The customer demanded a refund before we could pick up the pool. We offered to initiate the refund once the pickup was scheduled.
  The customer insisted on a cashier's check or cash, as advised by their lawyer and banker. We requested their lawyer's and banker's contact information to discuss this further.
  In Illinois, a refund of $9xxx must go back on the original payment method to avoid money laundering. We needed to discuss this with their advisors.

  
  Lack of Advisor Contact:
  Several days passed without receiving the contact information for their lawyer or banker. We needed these details to discuss the legal implications with our legal team.
  During this period, the customer complained to the third-party company about our communication. We have uploaded screenshots of these conversations.
  After 40 days, we received the banker's name. The banker confirmed he did not advise the customer to request a refund in cash or cashier's check and stated there would be no issue refunding the amount back to the original card.
  Despite several requests, we have not received the lawyer’s information.

  
  Harassment of Owner:
  The customers found our owner’s cell phone number and contacted him multiple times while he was out of state. Despite explaining the situation, they continued to hassle him over the weekend.
  After discussing the situation and reviewing all documentation, we decided to request again to refund them and move on. They refused, insisting on a different form of payment.
  We requested written confirmation from their banker and lawyer accepting all legal and financial responsibility if we provided the refund in cash or cashier’s check. Their banker refused, and we still have not received their lawyer’s information.

  
  Final Attempts:
  On day 60, our driver attempted to schedule a pickup. The customer refused to let us take possession of the pool until the refund cleared, which they claimed would take 7-10 days.
  I confirmed this in writing to have a digital record. We also informed them of a 20% restocking fee due to legal fees and their unreasonable demands. They refused to pay this fee.
  On day 66, we summarized our efforts and offered to pick up the unopened pool boxes for a 100% refund. We received no response.

  
  BBB Complaint:
  On day 70, we received and discussed the customer’s BBB complaint. We provided all details, including their demands for illegal activity and our efforts to resolve the issue.
  We have exhausted all reasonable options to make this customer happy. Despite offering a 100% refund, their demands have been unreasonable and unworkable. We have considered 70 days of attempts to be a more than reasonable time and are considering this matter closed. The customer received 100% of what was agreed upon digitially via email and quoting software. We do see their uploads that could possiby be altered. We also are requesting info about "storage fees". We dont have a warehouse nor a location to store items, therefore wouldnt have a reason to charge fees.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/28/2024

   I am rejecting this response because:
  We did request an estimate for the 15 X24 Colorado pool. **** informed us that it was not in stock and suggested 2 other pools that were in stock for the 15 X24 size. He sent me pictures on my phone of the 2 colors that were in stock for the size that we wanted. We did not ever agree to purchase a 12 x 24. My husband was just wanting to find out what was in the standard kit that we could expect to arrive with our 15 X24 pool, hence ****'s comment on the bottom of that email that  says this is basically what comes with all the Carvin kits. We have multiple emails and text message where ***** mentions that we are wanting the 15 X24. The contract is what is binding was signed on April 18th. This voids out any previous emails anyway.

  We had to cancel with the 3rd party installers because it rained and after that because we discovered that we had the wrong size pool. The installer was reaching out to us every few days to find out if **** had refunded our money so we could order a pool from another company. They helped us find a stretch liner because **** was unable to and have been working hard with us to get our pool installed. I was involving **** only to say that we needed our $ back to we could schedule with the installer. 

  Refund issues

  **** kept saying that he needed to refund the $ via our credit card even though I had repeated told him that it was not purchased with a credit card, but a debit card. I went to the bank and arranged to the [payment could go back to that debit card but after that **** was insisting that we pay a 25% restocking fee. We refused to pay this because it was not our fault that he ordered the wrong pool. We are honest people and believe that if one makes a mistake that they own up to it and take responsibility for it. **** refuses to do this and is just trying to do some "smoke and mirrors" trick by trying to drag our bank and lawyer into this. He is accusing us of trying to do money laundering. He has demanded names, written statements and certified letters to anyone he had deemed has given us "bad advice". This is simply a tactic to try to bully his way out of paying us. 

  He was very responsive to us until he had our money and then "ghosted" us on many occasions, especially when there was an issue with the pool size, that is why we tried to contact the owner. 

  In his response to the BBB, he said that the stocking fee was 20%. He told us 25% and we have proof of that. We never refused the 100% refund of our $. That is all we ever wanted. 

  We are not saying that there are storage fees on their side, we are saying that we would like to re-coop storage fees from Backyard Pool and Patio for having this pool, that we didn't order and never wanted sitting in our garage since May 6th.

  I would add more, but I think that my 30 minutes is up.

  
  

  Business Response

  Date: 07/01/2024

  We have made numerous attempts, spanning over 70 days, to engage with the
  customer regarding the issues outlined above. We have also provided screenshots
  documenting the customer's excessive demands. The customer was the first to
  introduce the involvement of legal and financial advisors. Consequently, we
  have repeatedly requested their contact information. As evidenced in the
  previously uploaded screenshots, the customer asserted that they were
  "advised by their lawyer and banker." Given this claim, we sought a
  business discussion regarding the advice they purportedly received. Our
  intention was straightforward and transparent.
  Regarding the refund/advice from lawyer/banker, we have made multiple
  requests for contact information and were eventually provided with the name of
  their banker. Following a detailed phone conversation lasting over 30 minutes,
  the banker explicitly stated that he did not provide such advice. This discrepancy,
  coupled with the customer's unreasonable demands and the false information
  regarding their banker, led us to insist on speaking with their unnamed lawyer.
  We aimed to discuss and present the screenshots showing the customer's refusal
  to process the refund to their original payment method, along with their demand
  of refunding the money via cashiers check or cash, which again, at this dollar
  amount is money laundering. It was requested that if we were to refund a
  different method type, that we wanted no peril of the transaction. Since it was
  “advised” by their lawyer and banker (per their words) then we requested their
  advisors put in writing that they would be financially and legally responsible
  for any post refund issues along with if the customer were to attempt a
  chargeback on their card.
  It is important to clarify that, irrespective of whether the card used
  was a debit or credit card, online transactions are processed as "credit
  card" transactions, without the need for a PIN. We attempted to explain
  this to the customer, but our explanations were ignored. Their banker also
  stated to us via phone that it would be ok to refund back on their original
  card and that he advised them on that, however, never came up via communication
  with the customer. They still demanded it be refunded a different way,
  including seeing the refund button be pushed in front of them, then not
  allowing us to take possession of the pool for another 10-15 business days in
  order for the payment to clear. There is not a business that would allow for a
  large refund to be made and not accept their merchandise for at least a half of
  a month or longer.
  Despite numerous efforts to facilitate a refund and retrieve our pool,
  the customer remained uncooperative and insisted on an in-person refund rather
  than processing it back to the card. Given the unreasonable demands and the
  protracted duration of this issue, it is reasonable to consider terminating
  further interactions after 60 days (70 now). We have dedicated over 40 hours,
  including nights, weekends, and holidays, in an effort to resolve this matter
  with the customer with no success. They have also went as far as wanting NDA
  forms signed by our supplier along with our installers about this.
  Next, the customer's claim that we "ghosted" them is unfounded.
  Their attempts to contact us on Sundays and post-7 PM on weeknights occurred
  outside our documented business hours. We have demonstrated patience and
  empathy throughout this process.
  Furthermore, the customer's assertion of incurring "storage
  fees" since May 6th lacks substantiation. We request that they provide
  invoices and payment records for these fees. It is worth noting that we do not
  charge storage fees as we do not possess a storage location, warehouse or
  retail store to store items. Therefore, “fees” cannot be charge since we don’t even
  offer that service or a way to.
  The documented facts include:
  The presale
  agreement via email and invoice confirming the size of the delivered item
  and in a timely manner
  The customer's
  unreasonable exuberant demands regarding the refund process.
  The misleading
  information about their banker, their nameless lawyer and now fabricated “storage
  fees”.
  The customer's
  outright refusal to accept the refund and hold equipment hostage.
  The customer’s attempt
  to leverage notes on this BBB Complaint and misleading information.
  In conclusion, our actions have been reasonable and in good faith, and we
  seek a resolution based on documented evidence and factual information. It
  seems there is/was no way to please this customer. Our 2 year old small
  family business will incur small financial loss due to extensive efforts to
  reach a mutually acceptable resolution. However, that is on us for overextending
  our attempts with this customer.  Consequently, after over 70 days, we have
  terminated our relationship with the customer. In accordance with the terms
  stipulated in the invoice and contract and overall human decency to do the
  right thing, we have fully delivered all goods and services as agreed upon,
  ordered, and paid for by the customer.
  It's a shame that these customers had to push the limits of fabrication and
  misleading in an attempt to gain some response from the public. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/01/2024

  Dear BBB,

  I wanted to add some additional information to address some of what **** ***** listed in his response. I, first wanted to say that I have never made a BBB complaint and actually never even thought to make one. We are not complainers and we understand that mistakes get made, on occasion.  I am uploading the complete text message that includes the description of the pool. **** left the bottom part off. That is the part that I was referring to in my last statement  'It's basically everything that comes with the "Carvin" kit.' It was sent in response from a verbal conversation where my husband asked to let him know what comes in the kits.  He also took 17 days to deliver the pool from the day of purchase (April 19- May 6th), not the ' within a week' that **** wrote. We never cancelled with the 3rd party installers. The third party installers canceled with us once because of rain and then they were putting us on their schedule in the hopes that **** would get us a pool or a refund. The money laundering thing is just crazy excuse making on his part. **** asked for the banker's info on Juneteenth and I went to the bank the very next morning. My banker said that he was fine with giving **** his info to help us put this matter to rest. Instead ****  threatened him with legal action. On the 66th day, he text me refund for installation services only and I asked how much of a refund that was. I have included that as an upload. I asked for a dollar amount and he didn't reply until he got the BBB complaint and never did give me an amount.. I will have to upload after sending this reports as I am having computer issues and I am worried I will time out. Thank you for all your help on this!

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/01/2024

  Here is the attachment that I meant to send with the text from earlier today. As I said before, our goal was to get our complete refund with storage fees and/or interest fees if the BBB thinks applicable. We also ask that you review your A+ rating of this business. We looked at that before we started business with this company and felt like they could be trusted because of that. We have been "through the wringer from this company. We were scheduled to have our pool installed May 1st and because of the mismanagement of this company, we have wasted our time and energy, not to mention our swimming time. We have had to reschedule family events because of this. No other customers should ever have to go through this and we hope that the BBB not only hold this company accountable but have this posted on your site so others may be given an opportunity to be warned of just how dishonest Backyard Pool and Patio has been. Our dream turned into a nightmare. Please don't let this happen to others who might be foolish enough to trust them. Thank you.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/04/2024

   I am rejecting this response because:
  This company "fabricated statements" and conjured up this whole narrative to justify not returning our $ even though they breached our contract. Now they are saying that they are 'terminating their relationship' with us even though we are out all our $. 

  To whomever is reading this...when I see a negative review by an unhappy customer, I give the company the benefit of the doubt because some people are "hard to please". I can assure you (and can prove) that this is not the case here. I don't quite understand why they refused to make this situation right after they made an order error. They deal with mostly very costly inground pools and we just figured that our pool was "small potatoes" to them  but now it seems like it is a personal vendetta. I am deeply hurt by this. **** seemed like a nice, family- oriented man who gave us advice of how to not be scammed by other companies. He made us believe that we could trust him and he even told us about his family activities. We encouraged him that family comes first and to get back to our purchase during office hours so it didn't interfere with his family time. 

  Everyone who knows us, knows that we are helpful, honest and kind. We live in a small town where people take care of each other. That is how we operate as well. 

  I am deeply hurt that they have taken advantage of our kindness. I appealed to their sense of humanity by letting **** (the owner) know that the purchase of this pool was made by cashing out the remaining balance of an inherited IRA from my deceased brother. He did not respond to that text message. 

  These are not people that you want to get into business with. It is too late for us, but please don't make the same mistake that we made. Don't trust them. 

  As you can see from their last statement, they have dragged this out and are now saying that they 'have terminated their relationship' with us. But of course, they are now pulling this. They got paid for a 15 X24 pool and delivered a 12 X24 pool. They got paid for the 15 X24 and so they were substantially over paid. They also have their profit margins. We are out all our $ and are stuck with this pool that we don't want. 

  Please heed our warning. We don't want any other good people to get burned by this unscrupulous company!

  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/05/2024

  Dear BBB,

  I did want for the BBB to know why the refund method was an issue for us. We made this purchase with my debit card. Since I did trust **** ***** then, I gave him my debit card number over the phone. After I grew to know that I could not trust him and it seemed that the only thing that I could trust is that they would try to cheat us by any means that they had, I said that I wanted a certified check and suggested that cash would even be better for both of us to expedite matters. I was very worried that he would try to cancel the refund after he initiated it and when he had possession of the pool. We offered for them to pick up the pool immediately after we received our refund. We sent them pictures of the boxes that were untampered with since they said that they couldn't get back their money for the pool if the boxes were opened. The boxes were exactly as they left them. We have tried to cooperate with them so that we would both be assured that this transaction went smoothly and that nothing "shifty" would happen. This whole money laundering thing is a farce. To my knowledge, the only time that there is even concern is when a transaction is over $10,000. And even in that case, it doesn't have anything to do with refunds. The bank simply needs to check on the authenticity of a large deposit. As a good faith offering, we even gave **** our bankers information. And like I said before, he harassed him demanding certified letters and the like. This was done after we had already cleared a way for **** to put the refund back on the debit card because that is what he " seemed" to want to do. He didn't want to cooperate at all and was just making trouble for us and others. As you can see from my uploads, he sent an email on June 24, 24. I didn't understand what he was even trying to say here so I simply asked for the dollar amount that he was going to refund. I sent this during regular office hours and a follow up one two hours later. He did not respond to this text message. I waited a couple days to see if he would respond and he didn't, so I filed the BBB report. It was not until he saw the report, did he reach back out to me (June 28th). He did not offer any solution and lied to say that they had offered a full refund. I answered that they never did offer a full refund. I am attempting to upload these messages as verification. This is not a company that seems to have any interest working with us or you. Because of the BBB report, he ended his "relationship" with us. His answers to the BBB make him sound like we are unreasonable and that he is the "victim" in all of this when we are the ones who he "ripped off". I felt a more through explanation was warranted here and I am fine with this becoming public knowledge. I only wish that I could keep this company from victimizing more people. 

  Business Response

  Date: 07/11/2024

  We appreciate the opportunity to present our perspective regarding the ******** case. We have encountered several inconsistencies and deceptive practices from the ******** in their attempts to secure a refund for a pool they claim is incorrect.
  We have voice mails from both **** and ***** ****** addressed to our business owner. While these voice mails are currently in a .aac format downloaded from an iPhone, we would be more than willing to share them if there is an appropriate method for conversion. In these messages, the ******* plead their case for a refund and assert that they have made numerous attempts to contact me (****), alleging that they have been "ghosted" with no communication from our end.
  Contrary to their claims, we have uploaded several text conversations that demonstrate active communication between us and the *******. This evidence highlights their deceptive behavior, including what appears to be an altered contract and repeated mentions of advice purportedly received from their lawyer and banker.
  We are committed to resolving this matter transparently and fairly, and we hope this additional context will help clarify the situation. However, we are at the point, we have no idea if they have altered anything with the pool we delivered several months ago or have opened boxes. When this first started, we advised we could return if they werent happy as long as the boxes werent open, due to possible tampering or missing parts. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/29/2024

  Dear BBB,

  Here is the evidence that you requested. I apologize that I am not very techy and did my best to copy this information. And actually I see that there was just one email about this. There was a voicemail from my husband that he left on ****'s phone requesting the swap and text messages from me. I have added some follow up text messages. Basically, when I was not informed that a swap could be made, I gave a deadline and then asked for a refund. I was not contacted by Backyard until after my deadline and so we ended up getting a 2nd pool from a different company so our whole summer was not ruined. We are needing our refund. A swap is no longer an option. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/29/2024

  Here are 2 more supporting documents for a refund request.

  Business Response

  Date: 08/12/2024

  I saw this portion is for the consumer to provide pics or documents to our contract subsection of 1.2 which states about delivery and installation. We only delivered this pool per the line items on the receipt. We did not charge nor offer to install the pool for the customer. They were using a 3rd party company in which cancelled on them also due to behaviors from the customers. We fulfilled every line item on this invoice. 

  Business Response

  Date: 08/12/2024

  The customers filed this same complaint with the State's Attourney's Office. Some of the details were skewed based off of what they advised the BBB of. This is also a new document for filing purposes that shows Mrs. ****** reaching out to a random online pool reseller asking information. The information was asked if a 1+' pool were to be ordered, does it have to be athe same footage liner. The online random company stated "Yes it does". This was given to the State's Att's office. However, the customer did leave out valuable information that is listed earlier on in this complaint along with stated several times. They requested a stretched liner to create a "deep end" which is not conventional or warrantied by the pool manufactures. It is also requested by the installation company that  larger liner be ordered in lieu of them having to be custom measured and cut just in case there are issues. Liners for pools are cut on a roll after being measured at the manufacturing facility or the distributon centers. At any time they could be cut short or at an angle. If the customer orders a 12' pool, 15' liner is what should be ordered. If a customer orders a 33' pool, 36' liners are requested.  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/12/2024

  Dear BBB,

  I already provided you with the contract for the 15 X24 pool. We received this as an email from Backyard Pool and Patio that we then e-signed per their instructions. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/29/2024

  [A default letter is provided here which indicates your acceptance of Arbitration. If you wish, you may update it before sending it.]

  Better Business Bureau:

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID .********, , and find that arbitration is necessary.

  Sincerely,

  **** And ***** ******

  Business Response

  Date: 09/26/2024

  BBB spoke with owner, **** today and reviewed BBB arbitration.  He accepted to arbitrate noting early November would be the soonest he can commit to attending an arbitration

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/06/2025

  The refund finally cleared and the nightmare is over (for us). I hope that your office will look into his business practices so this doesn't happen to anyone else. 

   

  Thank you for all your help and I hope that you have a wonderful 2025!

   

  Sincerely,

  ****