Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/06/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  ResolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  In late summer of 2022, my daughter tried out for the Missouri Havoc competitive softball team and was selected to fill one of the spots on the team. Throughout the fall practices she competed and was selected to fill the vacant 2nd base position and played the entire fall season at that position, while continuing to practice at that position. This continued until the last tournament which the end of October of 2022. During that tournament, a couple other players finished playing school ball and united with the team. One of those players was moved into the active catcher role, which bumped the current catcher, which happened to be one of the coach's kids. That kid was then moved to 2nd base (which she never practiced at that position before this move). Once this moved occurred, 1st, 2nd, and short stop was all occupied by the coach's kids. During the last tournament 3 kids were forced to sit the bench the entire tournament as the coaches refused to play anyone outside of the 9 they kept on the field. Prior to the spring season starting, she attended every practice except 1 and showed up on time. Despite others who did not. There was a tournament this past weekend, 4/1 - 4/2/2023 where the team played a total of 7 games. He benched the same 3 players for 6 of the 7 games. After that tournament I reached out to the coaches to inform them we were no longer going to participate on their team as it appeared they were not going to give any of those 3, my daughter included an opportunity to play. I requested to meet with someone from their organization to collect the remainder of my fees we paid that we will not be utilizing as she is not going to be attending any of the spring tournaments or league with them. I was ignored and deleted from the team communication (Band) app. I have contacted who I believe runs the organization but have not heard back. We paid almost between $1,500 and $2,000, did not receive a breakdown of fees and have not been given a refund.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 04/06/2023

  In late summer of 2022, my daughter tried out for the Missouri Havoc competitive softball team and was selected to fill one of the spots on the team. The organization collected a total of $1500.00 from last fall through March of 2023. Due to the team having more players then positions our daughter has not seen any playing time in the last 2 tournaments.  I am requesting a refund of our last installment of $500 and an additional $500 go give back to my sponsor. The total I am seeking would be $1000 refund. This would allow Havoc to keep $500 which paid for uniforms and the tournament/league fees for my child, but refund the money that will be used for future league and tournament fees.  We were not provided any documentation of how our fees were being spent throughout this entire process of being on this team. 

   

  Business Response

  Date: 04/12/2023

  There are many inaccurate statements included in this complaint, so I'll address them individually in order that ************** made them.

  1. Children at the 10U and 12U levels are NEVER selected for specific positions, his claim his daughter was selected for 2nd base is false.  In competitive softball, especially at that age, athletes play as many positions as they are capable of, based on the composition of the team.  This includes not playing, if they are not at a competitive level. Competitive softball's true value is the instruction the child receives at practices, drills they are given to work on at home, and being on a team with athletes who have stronger skills than they do in some or many areas so they get exposed to the higher level of the game. It does not lie in getting equal playing time, which penalizes the athletes who put in the extra work at home, listen at practice, and apply the principles taught to them.

  2. There are only two coaches on the team, ************** eludes to 3 positions being filled/set with "coaches kids".  This is untrue, again, as there are only two coaches(with 1 child each), as well as no child plays a set position at this age. I will concede that important positions are often filled with "coaches kids", but the nepotism claim is false. The truth is being a coaches kid almost always points to that child doing far more work at home, and thus being one of the top athletes on the team.  Ask any coaches kid and they'll likely tell you this is a benefit as well as a curse most of the time.  They are pushed harder, work longer, and held to a higher expectation than most others. Its unfortunate that many parents, such as ************** do not understand the game, or competitive team structures enough to see that.

  3. It was made abundantly clear at tryouts, team meetings, and initial practices that we are a competitive team, not a recreation team.  Our coaches have full discretion at setting the lineup, choosing who plays, when and where they play.  The tournament referenced was an extremely high level event, and the decision was made to only bat 9, and play 9 during the "bracket" play.  This does not mean that would be the case for all tournaments, especially if a child shows improvement in the previously mentioned areas, listening at practice, implementing what is learned at practice and working at home.

  4. As of 4-12-23, ************** has not reached out to either the head coach or the assistant coach with any requests.  I'm not sure who he is referring to in that statement.

  5. ************** also is overstating how much he paid.  We are a fundraiser based organization, we strive for as little out of pocket to our parents as possible.  Upon review of the records, the ***** family did write a $700 check in lieu of fundraising the entire amount of $1500 for the Spring/Summer session.  Fall session has been over for several months, and all money for this team was spent during that time frame.  If ****************** sponsor would like to contact us and formally request a refund of their money, our board would entertain and discuss it with that individual.  We will not return any money to ************* that he did not contribute.  After reviewing costs incurred by the team thus far (we've had none since ************** terminated his daughters position with us) we would be willing to refund him $181 for the remaining tournament fees that have not been paid for by the organization yet.  This number is figured based on ****************** $700 out of pocket, minus a prorated league fee, uniforms (2), batting helmet, bat bag, prorating the 5 batting cages sessions, and the 2 on field rental sessions the team incurred while the child was part of the team. If ************** would return the bat bag and the batting helmet in acceptable condition, we would add $59 to the refund, making a total of $240.
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 04/13/2023

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that this resolution is satisfactory to me.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************