Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:05/07/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Note: There is not enough space in the box, so please see attached WORD document for the problem.
  
  
  Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. installed the patio door and most of the windows for a house in 2008, which I purchased in 2020. At the end of 2022 and early 2023, I contacted Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. for warranty issues of the patio door and windows. The owner of Ontario Sunshine Services Inc., ****** ******, agreed to honour the warranty with a charge of $85+tax to repair the patio door that was installed by the company in 2008 – he told me multiple times that it would only take him less than an hour but he has a minimum charge of $85. On the site after he took the door apart, he began to make the job bigger and bigger and way out of control/initial quote, and did not even finish the improper work, and ransom more money to continue the warranty work, and did not install the door frame properly causing much more severe problems than the initial problem. Please see attached WORD documents for details.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 10/07/2023

  The homeowner called Ontario Sunshine with issues she was
  having with her Windows and Patio Door that were installed in 2008.  Because the job was installed over 15 years
  ago, she was told there would be an initial $85.00 service fee for us to go out
  and access which she agreed to. 
  Not $85.00 and hour as stated. 
  The $85.00 service fee included adjusting the Patio Door, getting serial
  numbers from the windows that needed new cranks and going back to install the
  new cranks once they came in.  A service
  that would take no more than an hour.
  
  We accessed the windows, replaced the crank even though it
  ended up not being one of our windows.
  
  After accessing the Patio Door, we removed the operator and
  replaced the rollers but found that the work needed to correct the issue was
  far more serious.  The sill plate was
  rotted out in one corner of the carpenter
  opening which was causing the problem with the door to not close
  properly.  We told the homeowner the only way to correct the issue was to
  extract and reinstall the Patio Door which she refused to have done and was
  very disgruntle afterwards. She was told that her sill plate needs to be replaced
  because it’s rotted out and the only way to do that is to remove the door,
  replace the sill plate and reinstall the door so it has a proper and level
  foundation to sit on.  Over the years
  this issue with the sill plate could be due to numerous reasons with one of the
  more common ones being carpenter ants.  
  Rather than leave the door the way it was as she had towels stuffed in
  one corner and trying to help, we did as much as we could and what she would
  allow us to do.  We adjusted the frame to
  be on the same profile as the operating sash to create an airtight seal.   This did include going back and forth to
  **** ***** for material etc. on work we didn’t plan on and for material and
  supplies we didn’t have on hand.  The
  exterior was completed, caulked and sealed. 
  Leaving only cosmetic caulking to be done to the interior trim/casing
  which the homeowner wanted done as well. 
  When the work was completed, the door was working and sealing
  properly. 
  
  We spent over 6 six hours on the Patio Door alone and told
  the homeowner that we would need to charge an additional $200.00 for time,
  labor and material where the homeowner replied “We’ll see.”  In our opinion this is not an unreasonable
  amount for 6 hours work, travel time, material, new window cranks etc.  When she called to find out when the interior
  caulking would be done, she was told that the $285.00 for work already
  completed would need to be paid first before booking another appointment.  Her reply was “I’m filing a complaint” and
  hung up.  We tried to reach her several
  times afterwards to at least try to recover the $85.00 that she agreed to and
  she stopped answering our calls.
  
  This is not a Supplier or Warranty issue as the ***** ****
  Product is performing the way it should. 
  Unfortunately,  ***** **** nor
  Ontario Sunshine is responsible for the integrity of a homeowner’s carpenter
  opening, shifting of the dwelling, carpenter ants or other things that may have
  taken place over the years to cause this to happen in the first place and until
  that issue is corrected, there’s nothing more we can do.   We are willing to remove the door, replace
  the sill plate and reinstall the door but this is not a Warranty issue and will
  need to charge for the work to be done. 
  She can contact us any time to schedule.
  
  If the homeowner feels the problem has not been resolved,
  please have her reach out to discuss this further.
  
  *** ******

  Customer Answer

  Date: 19/07/2023

  
  
  Complaint: 20279337
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  
  
  ***** ** **

  Customer Answer

  Date: 25/07/2023

  July 19, 2023
  Dear Sir/Madam,
  
  Re: Complaint #:20279337
  
  Thank you for the message sent to me on July 10, 2023 regarding complaint # 20279337. The  business' response is NOT satisfactory, and how I would like to proceed in this matter, as set out in my complaint on July 5, 2023, is as follows: I ask that Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. and the ***** **** coordinate to arrange some other ***** **** dealers to do an appropriate repair at the cost of Ontario Sunshine Services Inc., as now it needs to uninstall the patio door frame in order to properly fix the damages caused by *** ****** and I completely lost confidence and trust in Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. (What needs to be done is not about original problem any more, but to repair the damages caused by ** ****** – the patio door and door frame cannot work properly as the patio door would bump the frame before closing from the outside; the door frame is no longer rectangular any more and all four corners are no longer right angle but forms an irregular shape; and because the door frame was changed, the screen door cannot slide without falling from the track of the patio door frame). Once the repair is completed, I will pay $85+taxes as agreed to in the beginning. 
  
  The more detailed reasons and response to the business’ response is as follows:
  The business seems to try to lie and distort the information a lot, as detailed below quoting their response:
  1. Quote: “she was told there would be an initial $85.00 service fee for us to go out and access which she agreed to. Not $85.00 and hour as stated. The $85.00 service fee included adjusting the Patio Door, getting serial numbers from the windows that needed new cranks and going back to install the new cranks once they came in. A service that would take no more than an hour.”
  
  Note: It seems to me that the word “access” is a typo for “assess”; if not, I don’t understand what he means.
  
  Response: This statement in the business’s response is not true. The assessment, or the investigation, was done in the beginning of February 2023, and before the assessment, I clearly told Penny that there were warranty issues and made sure that there would not be any fee regarding the assessment. In fact, I always make sure that I would not be charged for a fee for any estimate or assessment for any problem. The business ensured me that there would not be any charge for the visit for early February to check the problems. The $85.00 is quoted for changing the crank handle and repairing the patio door.
  
  The business’s response tried to distort the repair to “adjust”, which is not true. As a lay person, I don’t know what caused the gap and how to fix it, so what I ask for is to repair/fix the patio door, and it is impossible for me to request him to adjust the patio door since I did not know what caused the problem, and even did not know that the patio door was adjustable at all, not mention telling him to fix the patio door “by adjusting”. So the work scope for the job is to fix the patio door, not limited to only adjustment. When *** ****** gave me the quote of $85.00, he said to repair the patio door, maybe “adjusting” the patio door was only his opinion and judgment at that time, but that is not the work scope during discussion – from this you can see either he has poor judgment about the problem, or caused unnecessary damages by removing three door jambs. That is part of the reason I cannot trust him any more.
  
  2. Quote: “The sill plate was rotted out in one corner of the carpenter opening which was causing the problem with the door to not close properly. We told the homeowner the only way to correct the issue was to extract and reinstall the Patio Door which she refused to have done and was very disgruntle afterwards. She was told that her sill plate needs to be replaced because it’s rotted out and the only way to do that is to remove the door, replace the sill plate and reinstall the door so it has a proper and level foundation to sit on. Over the years this issue with the sill plate could be due to numerous reasons with one of the more common ones being carpenter ants.” … “homeowner’s carpenter opening, shifting of the dwelling, carpenter ants or other things that may have taken place over the years to cause this to happen in the first place and until that issue is corrected, there’s nothing more we can do”.
  
  Response: The owner of the business was lying. First, the sill plate was not rotted out, and I have never seen any carpenter ants since I moved into the house. In fact, the sill plate is not wood, but it is metal (- I believe it is aluminum, but could be alloy or other kind of metal), and it’s not rotten at all – *** ****** did not do anything about the sill plate, so when the third party comes here to check, they con confirm that the sill plate is not rotten. In fact, when he took down the patio door, I was in the same room watching. I did not see the sill plate rotten, and he did not say that the sill plate was rotten when he took down the patio door.  I don’t understand what he means by “to extract and reinstall the Patio Door”, but he did not mention anything about the sill plate at all before he took the three jambs down, and he never asked me whether to replace the sill plate either. After he replaced the roller at the bottom of the patio door and still did not fix the gap problem, as I said in the original complaint, he told me that the corner formed by the right jamb and the top jamb was not right angle, which he said caused the gap between the patio door and its frame. Had he mentioned about removing the sill plate or removing all the door jambs in order to fix the gap problem before he started the job or even before taking the right jamb down, I would not have allowed him to continue the job. As I said before, after he changed the roller and still could not fix the gap, he told me that right jamb is not upright and  the angle of the right jamb and the top jamb was not right angle, despite my disagreement. What he told me at that time was to take the right jamb down, and did not even mention about the top jamb and left jamb. Only after he took the right jamb down, he told me that he had to take down the top and left jamb. After he took all three jambs down and moved around the jambs, close to the end of the day, he began to say that the bottom sill plate is not level – he never mentioned the word “rotten”, but uneven (or similar words) . As I said many times, if he had told me that he needed to take all my door jambs down in the beginning or even before he took the right jamb down, I would not have allowed him to continue.
  
  When he could not fix the problem, he began to look for excuses such as “Over the years this issue with the sill plate could be due to numerous reasons with one of the more common ones being carpenter ants.” As I said before, before he started the job, he never mentioned about the sill plate until after he reinstalled the three jambs, which was close to the end of the day.  Not only with the patio door, even for the window air drafts, instead of admitting the poor job his company has done, he said that it is due to the settlement/shifting of the walls (I forgot his original wording, but something similar if not exact). When his company installed the patio door and windows in 2008, the house was already over 20 years old (the house was built in 1985) and if there was any settle or shift, it would have already happened by 2008. Furthermore, there are a few other ****** windows installed by another company, yet the other company never said that windows walls were settled or shifted. All his blames for other unreasonable excuses make me feel that he has poor judgment and tried to dodge the poor job his company did. (By the way, the houses in my areas were built by one of the best builders, and the whole neighbourhood, including my house are in good shape, never heard otherwise. I also had house inspection in 2020 and nothing was wrong with the house foundation or walls. )
  
  3. Quote: “Rather than leave the door the way it was as she had towels stuffed in one corner and trying to help, we did as much as we could and what she would allow us to do. We adjusted the frame to be on the same profile as the operating sash to create an airtight seal. This did include going back and forth to **** ***** for material etc. on work we didn’t plan on and for material and supplies we didn’t have on hand. The exterior was completed, caulked and sealed. Leaving only cosmetic caulking to be done to the interior trim/casing which the homeowner wanted done as well. When the work was completed, the door was working and sealing properly.” 
  
  Response: I did not use towel, what I used is Jacobs & Thompson Neoprene self-adhensive Closed Cell Tape (No. 21009, 3/16” x 3/8” x 50’ or 4.8mm x 9.5mm x 15.2m) – see the picture below. In addition, the job has not been completed yet. Furthermore, at the end of the day, *** ****** told me not to use the patio door for some days, so I did not know whether the door was working properly or not at that time. Only after he refused to come back then I see that not only the door was not working properly with the door frame, but also that the door frame is no longer rectangular any more and all four corners are no longer of right angles but form an irregular shape, as well as the screen door is not usable any more.
  
   
  
  4. Quote: “We spent over 6 six hours on the Patio Door alone and told the homeowner that we would need to charge an additional $200.00 for time, labor and material where the homeowner replied “We’ll see.” In our opinion this is not an unreasonable amount for 6 hours work, travel time, material, new window cranks etc.”
  
  Response: What I agreed to is $85.00 to repair the patio door and change the crank handle, and I have never agreed to more than $85.00. The end of result, however, is not only that the patio door is not fixed, but causing more damages. This is caused by *** ******’s poor judgment and terrible work quality. I need remedies for the damages with a completed good repair before paying $85.00. Furthermore, after we agreed to $85.00 for the repair over the phone before the job was started, there was no further discussion about the fees during the repair until he asked me $200 cash at the end of the day on March 11, 2023. Also the business violated multiple articles of  the Consumer Protection Act, 2002, S.O. 2002. If the problem cannot be resolved, I will file a consumer complaint with the Ontario government under the Consumer Protection Act as well. I might also contact the Canada Revenue Agency.
  
  
  5. Quote: “We are willing to remove the door, replace the sill plate and reinstall the door but this is not a Warranty issue and will need to charge for the work to be ***e. She can contact us any time to schedule.”
  
  Response: I have completely lost trust and confidence with Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. and there is no way I will do any other business with them. What I have seen and suffered from is their poor judgment, terrible work quality, and irresponsible attitude, and I even feel ransomed. I will not let him or his company do more damages. Instead, I ask that Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. and the ***** **** coordinate to arrange some other ***** **** dealers to do an appropriate repair at the cost of Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. (without their coordination, other dealers of ***** **** Windows and Doors will not service the patio doors there were not installed by them) – It is not about fixing the original gap any more, it is about repairing the damages *** ****** has caused. Once the repair is completed, I will be responsible for $85+taxes as agreed to in the beginning.
  
  6.
  
  Thank you for your attention.
  
  ***** ** **
  

  
  

  

  Business Response

  Date: 15/08/2023

  We understand your concerns regarding the condition of your patio door, however, we’ve made several attempts to reach out to resolve this issue but you will not take our calls.  We cannot correct the issue if you’ll not let us do what needs to be done or respond to us. Unfortunately, we’re not responsible for rot, water damage or any concealed damage inside the wall especially after 18 years since this Pato Door was installed.  When we initially installed the patio door, if the sill plate was rotten at that time, we would have replaced it before proceeding with the installation and the homeowner would be charged for the additional work which is normal practice. We do want to touch base on the most important issue here which is your sill plate.  Please refer to the below definition of a sill plate with a bullet point response to your comment.
  
  Home Owner’s Comment - The owner of the business was lying. First, the sill plate was not rotted out, and I have never seen any carpenter ants since I moved into the house. In fact, the sill plate is not wood, but it is metal (- I believe it is aluminum, but could be alloy or other kind of metal), and it’s not rotten at all – *** ****** did not do anything about the sill plate, so when the third party comes here to check, they con confirm that the sill plate is not rotten.”
  • The metal you’re referring to is the sill of the door on NOT the sill plate.  Definition of a Sill Plate - A sill plate is the bottom horizontal part of a wall, window, door or building to which the vertical studs are attached to. Sill plates are made from lumber - usually measuring 2" x 4", 2" x 6", 2" x 8" or 2" x10".  This is your carpenter opening of the Patio Door much the same as a header to a window or entry door.  The sill plate is what your Patio Door sits on which is wood as stated above that we screw into to install the Patio Door (not metal).  Carpenter ants was an example we used but there are many issues that can be the cause of this to happen over the years.  
  
  Please call us and we’d be more than happy to assist in any way we can.
  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 24/08/2023

  
  
  Complaint: 20279337
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: see attached document
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  
  
  ***** ** **

  Customer Answer

  Date: 25/08/2023

  Dear Sir/Madam,

   

                                Re: Complaint #:20279337

   

  Thank you for your message on August 15, 2023 regarding complaint # 20279337. The  business' response is NOT satisfactory, and how I would like to proceed in this matter, as set out in my complaint on July 5, 2023, is as follows: I ask that Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. and the ***** **** coordinate to arrange some other ***** **** dealers to do an appropriate repair at the cost of Ontario Sunshine Services Inc., as now it needs to uninstall the patio door frame in order to properly fix the damages caused by *** ****** and I completely lost confidence and trust in Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. (What needs to be ***e is not about original problem any more, but to repair the damages caused by Do ****** – the patio door and door frame cannot work properly as the patio door would bump the frame before closing from the outside; the door frame is no longer rectangular any more and all four corners are no longer right angle but forms an irregular shape; and because the door frame was changed, the screen door cannot slide without falling from the track of the patio door frame). Once the repair is completed, I will pay $85+taxes as agreed to in the beginning.

   

  The more detailed reasons and response to the business’ response is as follows:

   

  I do not trust the business any more, not only about their words/communications as they try to distort the information, but also their technical competency, and they have lost creditability to me. That is why I do not wish to have any direct communication with them without any witnesses as they are not credible, and I would rather go through a third party for credibility and fairness (or at least with a third party as witness), as I said in the above, such as through the ***** **** representative.

  The business (Ontario Sunshine) is lying about the matter. As well known, the warranty for doors and windows are normally 25 years, so the response of the business saying that the door was installed 18 years ago (actually, it should be 15 years ago) is not a valid excuse. Furthermore, I re-checked the sill plate and as far as I can see, there is no sign of being rotten. Had the sill plate been rotten, the owner of the business *** ****** would have had the obligation to show me the rotten part, as it is against the customer protection law if the business saw the scope of the work changed yet without showing me the rotten part but instead built the rest of the work on the rotten part – it does not only mean that the business is irresponsible and unprofessional, but also illegal and lack of conscience. In fact, I was on the same floor on March 11, 2023 but the owner of the business (*** ******) did not show me anything – Obviously he lied about the sill plate. That is also why now I do not allow him to do more damages and instead request another ***** **** dealer to be coordinated for the repair (also as a witness to prove Ontario sunshine lies). I do not trust Ontario Sunshine in communication or technical aspects and will not let him continue to do more damages. My requirement is very clearly stated in the above and in the initial complaint, which is (for one further more time repetition):

  I ask that Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. and the ***** **** coordinate to arrange some other ***** **** dealers to do an appropriate repair at the cost of Ontario Sunshine Services Inc., as now it needs to uninstall the patio door frame in order to properly fix the damages caused by *** ****** and I completely lost confidence and trust in Ontario Sunshine Services Inc. (What needs to be done is not about original problem any more, but to repair the damages caused by Do ****** – the patio door and door frame cannot work properly as the patio door would bump the frame before closing from the outside; the door frame is no longer rectangular any more and all four corners are no longer right angle but forms an irregular shape; and because the door frame was changed, the screen door cannot slide without falling from the track of the patio door frame). Once the repair is completed, I will pay $85+taxes as agreed to in the beginning.

   

  Thank you for your attention.

  ***** ** **