Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:31/10/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  ResolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  June 28 2023, quote 13436-5, Job #** I ordered a 67 ft of fence to be installed directly at the property line, adjacent but not over. I have a shared lawn and in a bitter property dispute. I followed instructions, had a surveyor **** the property, I ran a string line as per fence all video to **** it. I also ordered a lattice which was to be installed and jointed with the fence at an offset that would square with the post at the fence line.Fence all sales and later the ground crew, did not follow my directions/instructions, pulled up the string and instead of a perfect line down the property, they angled the fence generously slicing off real estate to match the lattice instead of the property line. I stopped construction as soon as I noted the error.Fence all refuses to remediate or negotiate in good faith. I asked them several times to correct the fence line. They have outright refused my request to correct the fence angled weirdly into my property. They have offered to complete the fence as is (too bad so sad **** it up option) or dump the remaining materials on my property and do it myself (option 2). I have refused these 2 unacceptable options presented by fence all in their email. I had asked them to come up with a solution to avoid litigation as I will not be accepting the fence where it is now. I find fence all arrogant in dismissing the seriousness of chopping of sections of my property with a fence that meets the property pin at one end and then progressively leans away from the property line forming a right angle as it approaches the house.As a senior and a widow, I dont appreciate being bullied. My lawyer and I have put forward a reasonable counter offer to their ridiculous response. We have offered DAMAGES IN TRUST of $1000 monthly to facilitate remediation at cost not price and each party share damages 50% until installed correctly.They have not responded to our counter offer. Please advise as appropriate.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 02/11/2023

  I have attached a screenshot of the contract to this reply, which the client has clearly signed, for reference.  I have only included a screenshot, which does not reveal any personal information (name or address) of the client.  On this contract you will see a drawing of a fence to be installed in a straight line.  In summary, the project includes 11 of wood fence installed tightly against the neighbours porch, then 15 of 7 high *** fence, then 42 of 4 high *** fence.  All in one continuous straight line.

  
  We reached out to the client and set a start date of October 19th, 2023. She confirmed this date and knew we were coming.  The fence installers arrived on the 19th and met with her before beginning the installation.  There was already one orange peg in the ground marking the end of the property line (see attached picture), and the client told our installers she wanted the fence to be installed on HER side of the property peg.  I have attached a picture showing the orange property peg, with our fence string attached directly to that peg, drawing the fence line.  The client was there and approved of the fence string before the work began. The holes were dug and all the posts were installed in cement. The client was there, gave us access to water to mix the cement, and said absolutely nothing about the fence line being incorrect.  Before the installers left for the day, they had the client look at the posts they had installed and the client said they looked great and that the fence was going to look great when finished.  As weve said, the installers followed the signed contract which showed one continuous straight line of fence, they met with the client before and after the posts were installed, and nothing was EVER mentioned about the fence line being incorrect.

  After the posts were installed, the client sent several emails to her sales rep as well as to the Fence-All office, arguing that we did not follow her property line and that we should have jogged the fence.  According to the client we should have installed the wood portion tight to the neighbours porch (which we have), and then started the *** fence a few inches over, on the neighbours property.  She then sent us a drawing of how she wanted the fence installed, which I have also attached to this email.  It should be noted that the purpose of a contract is that a business and client have an agreed upon plan for the work that is to be done.  Manually drawing on our contract is not considered an amendment.  The client said nothing during the quoting process about wanting this configuration and nothing while the installers were there installing the posts.  It was only brought to our attention after all the posts were cemented. 

  
  The client then placed an old wood post next to the *** post we installed, to show where she would like the *** fence to be.  The pictures she posted in her BBB complaint show the piece of wood SHE placed, and is arguing that the *** posts are nowhere near the fence line.  The posts WERE up against the fence line, until she added a piece of lumber next to our *** post and moved the string over.  If she had wanted the fence to be installed in a different location, this should have been brought to our attention before the work began AND it should have been included on her contract.

  
  When it was brought to our attention that the client was dissatisfied with where the posts were placed, her sales rep changed his schedule in order to meet with her in person to view the fence and see if a mistake was made on Fence-All's part. The sales rep confirmed that the installers **** a straight line based off of the orange property peg, and followed the contract of one continuous straight line.  He asked to see her survey which would show exactly where her property is, but she will not share it with us.

  
  Since then we have asked several times to see her survey which apparently shows that she owns those inches of her neighbours property (where she would like the fence moved over to), but she will not share this with us. It seems highly improbable that she would own those inches of her neighbours land, considering the fence is tight to the neighbours porch at one end of the line.  We firmly believe that installing the fence a few inches over would mean installing the fence on her neighbours land.

  
  We responded to her emails in a professional manner and offered resolutions. She then went to the BBB and told us that all communications need to be done through the BBB.  The options that we offered her are: #1) allow us to return and finish the fence, or #2) we deliver the rest of the fence material and she can finish the fence on her own.  We are not moving any posts, especially without having seen a survey proving that she owns those extra inches of land.
  It should also be noted that every email and interaction weve had with her has been courteous on our part.  The clients emails have been disrespectful, unprofessional, and borderline abusive.  Ive attached a screenshot of one of the latest emails, for reference.  

  
  Threatening lawyers and threatening BBB complaints does not change anything on our end. We followed the contract, we installed the posts while she was there, she approved the fence line before and after the installation.  We are not moving the posts without seeing the survey she has referred to.  If lawyers are involved they will ask to see the contract, which will show one straight line and the clients signature. They will also ask to see a survey, since this is a property dispute, so she will need to provide it.   We firmly believe the fence is in the correct location, and we will not knowingly install a fence on someone elses property.  
  

  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 13/11/2023

   
  Complaint: 20804403
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  I have attached a screenshot of the contract to this reply, which the client has clearly signed, for reference.  
  
  Yes, I signed it, but the journey how we got here was very very frustrating and very sloppy work on behalf of the sales person.  I had to stop the project several times and complain about the paperwork.  He also helped himself a deposit before a contract was in place and then pretended it didnt happen despite still negotation.  I asked for another salesperson but there are no other salespersons, just *********  Despite this, I like ****, still dew.  I decided to try again and re-contact ********* in the spring.  I felt the point was made, and I liked the fence.
  
  I have only included a screenshot, which does not reveal any personal information (name or address) of the client.  On this contract you will see a drawing of a fence to be installed in a straight line.  
  
  And this was a point of contention, his terrible drawing got better because I insisted and stopped the job.  I got tired insisting, got frustrated and figured this was going to be the best representation that I am going to get from this man.  I gave up and signed off thinking as long as I get to the ground crew, I should be ok.  Winter was coming and I gave up on trying to get this man to give a proper contract.  My fault there for sure.  
  
  In summary, the project includes 11 of wood fence installed tightly against the neighbours porch, then 15 of 7 high *** fence, then 42 of 4 high *** fence.  All in one continuous straight line.
  
  This is untrue, this is extent to which ********* efforts culminated to.  I wanted 57 feet of fencing (heights 15' of 7' + 42') along the property line, directly adjacent, I expected it to be straight obviously.  And a Lattice backdrop for the container garden.  ********* explained a spacer might be required, not a problem. I got angled fence line deviating from the fence line to meet the lattice (which is not a fence, its a lattice covering the porch wall opening).
  
  We reached out to the client and set a start date of October 19th, 2023. She confirmed this date and knew we were coming.  The fence installers arrived on the 19th and met with her before beginning the installation.  There was already one orange peg in the ground marking the end of the property line (see attached picture), and the client told our installers she wanted the fence to be installed on HER side of the property peg.  
  
  Correction, and adajacent to the property line, as marked by the surveyor. and on my side clearly marked out by the string depicting the property line and which sides are mine.
  
  I have attached a picture showing the orange property peg, with our fence string attached directly to that peg, drawing the fence line.The client was there and approved of the fence string before the work began. The holes were dug and all the posts were installed in cement. 
  
  This is untrue, I believe that to be my fence line string that you can see the installation is clearly veering away at an angle.  If it is their fence line, again, it is veering away at an angle from the property line.  This is my responsibility, I had a surveyor put the stake in the ground as noted in the picture.  If this is FenceAll string, I never approved it.  I only showed the ground crew my string line.  One of the young lads pulled it up and handed it to me.
  
  The client was there, gave us access to water to mix the cement, and said absolutely nothing about the fence line being incorrect.  Before the installers left for the day, they had the client look at the posts they had installed and the client said they looked great and that the fence was going to look great when finished.  As weve said, the installers followed the signed contract which showed one continuous straight line of fence, they met with the client before and after the posts were installed, and nothing was EVER mentioned about the fence line being incorrect.
  
  I assumed to workmen understood my instructions.  Turn out, he followed ************* dreadful diagram, and based on that, error was certain as the pack didnt have the configuration I ordered/expected.  Yeah, I didnt notice it was messed up until Sunday, weather was crappy, mud was everywhere and I had other things to do and put my faith in the installers.  I told the installer the diagram was wrong, and the contract was pretty lacking.  I felt at that time he understood and seemed to.  Frankly, what's installed, isnt whats on the diagram either btw.  Thats why **** is redrawing my property line to make it look straight.  
  
  After the posts were installed, the client sent several emails to her sales rep as well as to the Fence-All office, arguing that we did not follow her property line and that we should have jogged the fence.  According to the client we should have installed the wood portion tight to the neighbours porch (which we have), and then started the *** fence a few inches over, on the neighbours property.  She then sent us a drawing of how she wanted the fence installed, which I have also attached to this email.  It should be noted that the purpose of a contract is that a business and client have an agreed upon plan for the work that is to be done.  Manually drawing on our contract is not considered an amendment.  
  
  This is what I always wanted, so I agree, it is not an amendment, its what i wanted all along.  I never got a correct contract from ********* despite valiant attempts.  We just didnt get through to one another i guess.  He' gives a lot of  confusing responses, which made it impossible to predict what the outcome would be.  I tried very very hard to achieve this, ********* makes a lot of mistakes.  
  
  The client said nothing during the quoting process about wanting this configuration and nothing while the installers were there installing the posts.  It was only brought to our attention after all the posts were cemented. 
  
  This was discussed at the start of negotiations, I have never waivered from what I wanted.  ********* has a terrible organization skills and makes many errors.  Im not surprised he has no recollection.
  The client then placed an old wood post next to the *** post we installed, to show where she would like the *** fence to be.  The pictures she posted in her BBB complaint show the piece of wood SHE placed, and is arguing that the *** posts are nowhere near the fence line.  The posts WERE up against the fence line, until she added a piece of lumber next to our *** post and moved the string over.  
  
  The string was never moved over.  It was removed by the ground crew, and given to me.  Again, this is my string.  I re-layed the string to indicate where the property line is and used the ***** as an indicator where *** post installation should have been.  As indicated in the picture, where the property line is as indicated by the string., which was approved by the ground crew (not me).  And you can clearly see the posts are not at the property line, and there is clearly a space where it meets my container garden wall along the centre, it should be squared with the corner.  The skew resulted in the offset and allocation of a pie shape being cut off my property line.
  
  If she had wanted the fence to be installed in a different location, this should have been brought to our attention before the work began AND it should have been included on her contract.
  I never wanted installed in a different location, I always wanted it to be installed there, unfortunately it was not and ********* is never concise, and I gave up trying to be vigilant. 
  
  When it was brought to our attention that the client was dissatisfied with where the posts were placed, her sales rep changed his schedule in order to meet with her in person to view the fence and see if a mistake was made on Fence-All's part. The sales rep confirmed that the installers **** a straight line based off of the orange property peg, and followed the contract of one continuous straight line.  He asked to see her survey which would show exactly where her property is, but she will not share it with us.
  
  It is not in a straight line, it is skewed from the property line to meet the trellis.  His own photos shows the deviation from the property line.
  
  Since then we have asked several times to see her survey which apparently shows that she owns those inches of her neighbours property (where she would like the fence moved over to), but she will not share this with us. It seems highly improbable that she would own those inches of her neighbours land, considering the fence is tight to the neighbours porch at one end of the line.  We firmly believe that installing the fence a few inches over would mean installing the fence on her neighbours land.
  This is pure conjecture and speculation on *********** part.  He has no idea what he is talking about.  Hes trying to match my property line with botched installation.  With a multiple housing unit, the property line is "at the foundation".  I had a surveyor come to the house in the spring to place the surveyors stick and he explained they do not count the facades when determining property lines.  It is at the foundation, since my unit is offset by 11', the property is starkly obvious.  And I had other work done which clearly depicts the property line.  The black line in the grass is the property line. 
  
  We responded to her emails in a professional manner and offered resolutions. She then went to the BBB and told us that all communications need to be done through the BBB.  The options that we offered her are: 
  
  #1) allow us to return and finish the fence, or #2) we deliver the rest of the fence material and she can finish the fence on her own.  We are not moving any posts, especially without having seen a survey proving that she owns those extra inches of land.
  
  I will allow viewing of my survey at the offices of BBB, but I will not provide a copy.   The survey cost my $4,000.00 and it clearly states in their welcome videos, this is my responsibility, which I met by caling in a surbeyor and marking my property linewith a string.
  
  It should also be noted that every email and interaction weve had with her has been courteous on our part.  The clients emails have been disrespectful, unprofessional, and borderline abusive.  Ive attached a screenshot of one of the latest emails, for reference.  
  He keeps avoiding responding, makes errors, and then takes no responsibility in the error. tries to get me to **** it up or he'll drop off the materials.  Im sorry, ignorance begets ignorance.  I got frustrated.  After 4 requests, he still hasnt confirmed whether or not the lattice will come with support bracing.  As I mentioned in one of my emails, Im really not sure what I paid for.  I assume the pricing is correct but I cant be sure frankly.
  
  Threatening lawyers and threatening BBB complaints does not change anything on our end. We followed the contract, we installed the posts while she was there, she approved the fence line before and after the installation.  We are not moving the posts without seeing the survey she has referred to.  If lawyers are involved they will ask to see the contract, which will show one straight line and the clients signature. They will also ask to see a survey, since this is a property dispute, so she will need to provide it.   We firmly believe the fence is in the correct location, and we will not knowingly install a fence on someone elses property.  
  
  I did not approve any fence All fence lines, never, not before, not afterwards.  The ground crew in my view, if they did, never showed me their lines, I'd have never approved it.  this statement is false.  The fence is wrongly located, and I would never ask FenceAll to trespass on a single centimeter of my neighbours property.  With that statement, Fence All has allocated a pie section of my property to my neighbour, why isnt that a concern?
  
  My lawyer has a copy of my survey.  Yup, he said I signed the dirty napkin.  However, he also believes Fence-All is partly negligent clearly demonstrated in some of the emails.  So damages are really about degree.  The fence is not in the correct location. and regardless, it will not stay there.  It needs to be moved, directly adjacent to the property line, correctly please.  I would like Fence-All to do it vs getting another contract to remove/reinstall it.  
  
  Please ask Fence-All to step up and take some responsibility for the confusion.  As it stands, the fence is unacceptable, I will not accept the current install and no I am not asking them to do an illegal installation on my neighbours side..
  
  I sugest we meet at BBB offices to resolve., otherwise these emails are turning into long dreary he/she said.  Im ready to resolve this, preferably with Fence-All doing the work.  Please Please, can I get the fence I wanted, expected, paid for? 
  
  ***********************************
  ************
  

  
  

   

  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************************

• Initial Complaint

  Date:13/06/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  We would like to file a complaint with the Better Business Bureau against Fence-All, 3160 Hawthorne Road, Ottawa, Ontario 613-736-1122 our contacts were Customer Experience Manager ****** and Senior Sales Rep **** ***.
  
  We purchased a 36’ pressure treated wood fence at a cost of $4690.00 from Fence-All in August of 2022 – it was installed on April 25, 2023.  It was a beautiful fence – the boards were flush to one another, you could not see through the fence, it was tall and created the privacy we needed please see Picture ONE.
  
  ******* *** ***** *** ***** **** ***** *************
   
  
  After only two weeks on May 12, 2023, we noticed the boards were separating from one another, cupping, and warping.  ***** *** ***** ******** ***** ** *** *** ***** *** *** *** *** ********** *** ********
  ******** ***** ** *** *** ****
   
   
   
  May 12, 2023 We emailed Fence-All’s Customer Experience Manager, ******** *** ***** ********, expressed our disappointment and asked to be contacted after the weekend in the hopes of getting some help.
  
  May 15, 2023 we received a response from Fence-All – several links for us to view, along with the explanation of the drying process and how this happens over time.  As there is no warranty the only thing that Fence-All can do to stop any further deterioration would be to install a mid-rail. 
  
  On Mon, 15 May 2023 at 09:55, ****** Fence All <*******************> wrote:
  
  The only thing that could help your fence is if we were to add what's called a "mid rail" to your fence.  A mid-rail is not automatically included in your style of fence (the forest hill model), since if a customer has a swimming pool a mid rail violates the fencing Bylaw for pool safety.  However, if you don't have a swimming pool, we could add this to your fence.  It adds more of a structure to the fence and helps keep the boards in place longer.  From what I see on your diagram, you don't have a pool.Fence-All’s solution is to charge us $180.00 to install a mid-rail, they will waive the travel fee and labour fee and fix the fence as best they can.  
  
  Until this email we had never heard of a mid-rail, and this is where the problem begins, we were never told about a mid-rail and the role a mid-rail plays in keeping a fence such as this tight and straight.
  
  May 15, 2023, our response to this email was simple –we had contacted Fence-All because:
  
  •We had dealt with Fence-All in 1985 at which time we had a pressure treated wood fence installed in our yard and thirty years later the fence aged beautifully, a few knots were missing here and there, but it stood straight, it never occurred to us pressure treated wood could deteriorate in weeks.
  •We thought they were a reputable company.
  •We needed advice – we wanted a fence that was as tall as allowed, a fence you could not see through and to keep costs as low as possible.
  
  August 27, 2022 Fence-All’s Senior Sales Rep recommends.
  
  To have 36’ of 7’high, pressure treated wood fencing supplied and installed, in the Forest Hill model, you are looking at a cost of $4692 + HST.
  
  Here is a link to the Forest Hill wood fence;
  *********************************************
  
  When this link is opened you see five pictures of the Forest Hill Model – We looked no further – we were happy with this.   Not one of these pictures has a mid-rail, but the fences are perfect.
  
  It was only after the Fence-All email of May 15th 2023 referencing a mid-rail did we go back to this link to see how we could have missed seeing anything about a mid-rail.
  
  We did not miss anything the pictures simply do not show a mid rail, but if you look further down the page, you see a section called WOOD FENCE UPGRADES.
  
  We did not look at the Wood Fence Upgrades on August 27, 2022 because it implied UPGRADES - meaning something over and above what is needed – the salesperson should have brought the mid-rail to our attention – they would know it’s benefits.
  
  Customers are not experts, nor should they be, Fence-All Sales Rep are the experts and customers look to them to provide the information needed to make a sound decision.
  
  It is for this reason we rejected Fence-All’s offer from the May 17th, 2023 email.
  
  On Wed, 17 May 2023 at 14:34, ****** Fence All <*******************> wrote:
  Your fence is 36' in total, and adding a mid-rail is $5 per foot.  The total would be $180. 
  Typically we also typically charge travel and "minimum labour" charges to this, since you're in Fitzroy Harbour which is over an hour from our shop, but I can waive these fees because of how abnormal this situation is.
  
  May 20, 2023 today we noticed the first post has a crack in it about ½ inch wide and the board beside this post is cracked and has separated.
  Picture taken May 22, 2023
   
  
  In our email of May 25, 2023, we refused the May 17th 2023 offer and made it clear what we feel would be the responsible offer. 
  
  We cannot accept this offer –if we had received the proper advice, we would have agreed to have the mid-rail installed on April 25, 2023 at the extra cost and the fence would not be in its present state.
  We feel the responsible solution would be, at no cost to us, for Fence-All, to replace the warped, cracked boards, tighten up the fence and install the mid-rail to restore the fence to what it would look like had the mid-rail been installed in the first place.
  
  May 25, 2023 Fence-All’s Customer Experience Manager response to our request was as follows:
  
  On Thu, 25 May 2023 at 14:30, ****** Fence All <*******************> wrote:
  
  I will have ****, your sales rep, get in touch with you to discuss this further.   **** was there during the sales process, so he is who you should be speaking with. 
  
  We asked the Customer Experience Manager to ask the sales rep to communicate with us in via email.
  
  May 26, 2023 The Senior Sales Rep response to this request is as follows:
  Please feel free to call me tomorrow at your confidence. I will only be available till noon. If not, please let me know when a good time to call you is? 
  
  Completely ignored our request to communicate in writing..
  
  May 26, 2023 our email reiterating our request to communicate in writing.
  
  As explained yesterday we prefer to continue communication with Fence-All through email.
  We hope you have reviewed all previous emails, at this point we are only looking for a solution.
  
  May 29, 2023 Senior Sales Rep’s email telling us it is inconvenient for him to communicate in writing.
  
  Unfortunately I am on the road all day and only get a chance to check emails once per day. If you want to get this issue resolved, it would really be best to talk to me.
  
  May 30, 2023 After receiving the responses we have we realize this company is not willing to do anything for us – not sure if this is now standard business practice but it is shameful to think a company can charge almost $5,000.00 for a product that lasts only two weeks.
  
  We have taken matters into our own hands – we purchased the wood necessary and some major hardware and installed mid-rails, the fence was deteriorating before our eyes and as Fence-All would not step up we felt we had to do something to prevent further damage.
  
  Perhaps Fence-All does not value $4,690.00 but this amount of money should buy a fence that lasts longer than two weeks and it would have lasted longer than two weeks if we were advised to have the mid-rail installed, it is that simple.
  
  We still maintain the only solution that would correct this situation is to do as we requested in our email of May 25, 2023.
  
  We feel the responsible solution would be, at no cost to us, for Fence-All, to replace the warped, cracked boards, tighten up the fence and install the mid-rail to restore the fence to what it would look like had the mid-rail been installed in the first place.
  
  
  Yours truly,
  
  
  ***** G***
  
  

  

  Business Response

  Date: 21/06/2023

  Hello,

  We are genuinely sorry that you are unhappy with your fence and with your experience with Fence-All as a whole. That being said, we work extremely hard to inform our customers on exactly what they’ve purchased and what to expect from the product they’ve selected, and I do not feel that your project was any exception. 

  
  You purchased a Pressure Treated fence. We have many pages on our website explaining the differences between Pressure Treated and Cedar lumber. This is a direct quote from the “Wood Choices” page of our website describing Pressure Treated lumber: “For those people working with a tighter budget a popular alternative is Pressure Treated Lumber. PT is NOT offered as a #1 Grade–purchasers should expect #2 Grade… Bark, eased edges, warping, cupping and cracking should all be expected.
  Further warping, cupping, twisting, and cracking after construction (possibly in as little as a day or two) is also to be expected with this type of wood. The main point to remember: #2 Grade is about economy over aesthetics.” I have attached screenshots from our website which shows this.  It's in bright yellow so customers don't skip over it.  Our website is very honest about the realities of lumber being a natural product, and that Pressure Treated lumber is a more affordable alternative to cedar. It will warp, twist and crack the day it is installed and starts to dry out.  This is not information that was withheld.

  
  We also sent you a series of five welcome emails when you purchased the fence to inform you of what to expect from the installation process as a whole. In the emails we urged you to check out our customer service page on our site and to watch our Youtube videos. We directly say: “We have spent many many hours creating informative videos on each of the products that Fence-All sells: wood, PVC, iron, chain link, railings and decks.  Our worst nightmare is hearing a customer say "well no one told me....".  We want our customers to be as informed as possible so that there are no surprises down the road.” . We also explain in our videos the differences between lumber options and what to expect. In our “Wood Intro” video we directly explain the differences in lumber and that gapping and warping is completely normal for a wood fence, especially for a Pressure Treated fence.  On the Terms and Conditions page of our contract that Natasha signed in September it says: “9. The Customer expressly acknowledges that Fence-All does not, as part of its service, perform any of, and therefore relies on the Customer to perform the following: a. Review ALL schematics, Product Information and Upgrade Options available for each part ordered (www.fenceall.com) to ensure the products and services being provided are suitable for the customer’s purposes”. 

  You feel as though the fence we sold you was not a privacy fence and that your sales person did not properly recognize your needs and sell you the fence you were looking for.   I disagree strongly.  We have the request you sent in where you specifically asked for the cheapest privacy model wood fence we offered.  Any sales rep in any industry would listen to this request and not waste time offering you quotes in more expensive products- like cedar wood or PVC vinyl.  Both cedar and PVC are significantly more expensive than a pressure treated fence (which is why people will opt for the less expensive but also less aesthetically pleasing pressure treated option), and since your request stated that you wanted the more affordable option, **** sent you the quote for pressure treated lumber in the "Forest Hill" model (our most popular privacy wood fence).  He also sent you a quote for the fence to upgraded to 6x6 posts, but this was too costly for you, so we went with the standard 4x4 posts.  Again stating that the cost was an issue.  The mid-rail information was not "withheld", it was just not mentioned because a) you said you wanted the cheapest option and the rail is an added cost, and b) the mid-rail is not included in that style of fence, as it is an added feature.  If you walked into a car dealership and asked for their cheapest car, no sales rep would waste time giving you quotes fora Porsche, or tinted windows, or an extra sun roof etc.,  They would listen to what you said and offer you the price of the cheapest car.  We didn't NOT tell you about the more expensive options of fence, we just didn't quote you in them because that wasn't what you asked for.   The fence is structurally fully in tact, with or without the added rail.

  You mention in your letter that you had to perform repairs because the fence was failing after two weeks. Gapping between boards is completely normal for a wood fence (especially a pressure treated fence), beginning the day that the fence is installed. This has nothing to do with the structural integrity or the life expectancy of the fence.  As the website explains (and warns customers), gaps between the boards is expected in this style of fence and in that type of lumber.  The only sure way to avoid gapping between the fence boards is to buy a product that is unaffected by the elements -i.e.  a PVC fence.  Whether you purchased pressure treated lumber or cedar, a wood fence is a natural product and WILL dry out and change.  This is clearly unacceptable to you, but this is something that no fencing company could have avoided.  The lumber is reacting to the environment, causing inevitable shrinkage.  

  I understand that you feel it is not the customer’s responsibility to research what they’ve purchased and that the underlying problem is that we did not thoroughly explain what you purchased. I could not disagree with you more.  It is our responsibility to open and honest about the realities of wood fences, which we have done.  One of your complaints was that you only wanted to correspond over email, despite ****'s many offers to call you and have a conversation on the phone. This leads me to believe you have access to a computer and can read all of this information on our website.  All 5 of our welcome emails after purchasing urge you to research exactly what you’ve purchased, the contract you signed explains we expect the customer to fully understand what they’ve purchased, and our Youtube videos explain what to expect from a Pressure Treated wood fence.  It is our responsibility to offer the information, and we have done that.

  In Summary: we have warned you repeatedly before the sale, openly offered the information on our website, and then offered you a solution after the fence is installed of something that could help with a complaint that you had.   As I've explained: during the sales process we have over 100 different styles of fences.  **** would never have had time to talk you through every single style of fence we offer and in what kind of material.  The appointment would have lasted a week. There is a responsibility of the customer to pick the type of fence they would like and have done SOME research ahead of time in what they are looking to purchase.  

  Lastly: the "gapping" which is what started this complaint is a complaint that quite frankly we do not receive from other customers. We offered you a significantly discounted price to return and install an extra rail on the fence, which will give the fence additional support and will help with the gapping as the wood dries out. The "gapping" is within our tolerances and is unpreventable.  Adding a mid-rail will help with the gapping down the line, but it will not be a total "cure".  The only "cure" would have been to buy a different fence, which you did not do.  It should be noted that the price offered to return and install a mid-rail is hugely discounted and doesn't even include travel (the customer's home is over an hour away from our shop). 

  
  We responded to every email you sent with detailed information as well as possible solutions.  **** *** offered to have a conversation with you on the phone numerous times- to which you declined.  We were genuinely trying to help you with a concern you had, even though (as stated) this ‘concern’ is something that 99%  of people who have had that fence installed do not have.  
  
  In conclusion: we will not be installing a mid-rail for you for free, nor will we be changing a single piece of lumber for free. There is no warranty on our wood fences, which we have said from the very beginning. 
  
  Sincerely,
  Fence-All
  

  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 24/07/2023

  The business response is not satisfactory, we do not want any further contact with Fence-All, we would just like the complaint and business response documented with the Better Business Bureau.

  The purpose of contacting the BBB was never to receive free product.  We simply could not believe the quality of wood fence that we purchased for $5k, which was built with wood that twisted, bowed and split within two weeks of being installed.  Coupled with the customer service response from Fence-All which has been condescending and inappropriate, as demonstrated in their business response.