Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/16/2023

  Type:Product Issues
  Status:

  UnresolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  This facility is a place we had planned on having a wedding reception/Family gathering on 6/24/2023. We had gone under contract with them on 5/31/2022 and paid a deposit of $3,631.53 on 6/2. Unfortunately, plans had changed and we were forced to cancel on 10/11/2023, with the idea that we would be getting back 50% of our deposit while forfeiting the rest. We were told that was not the case, despite the way we understand the contract, but they would give it back to us if the venue got rented minus marketing and sales effort. As the date grew closer I reached out to see if the venue had been rebooked and if we were able to get a refund, and we were told that the venue was rented but it was for a trade show and that incurred rebooking costs higher than the payment received from us and that we would receive no refund. My response was that at the bare minimum, I would expect to get 50% of the $3,337.50 to be refunded as well as the entire sales tax due to no sale being completed. I had spoken with my company lawyer who advised me that the sales tax is not applicable to a deposit and that I need proof of payment of the tax specific to your deposit as well. He read the contract and also said that since the clause regarding the license fee is separate from the payment terms (it is its own sentence), it is intended to be interpreted separately, and if there is any ambiguity as to what is refundable or not (based on whether the average reasonable person might be confused) then the contract will be construed against the venue and in my favor, thus again indicating that only 50% of the license fee is non-refundable.There response was to have my lawyer contact theirs. I will be doing so, but I figured the BBB should know of what I consider a deceptive and shady practice.

  Business Response

  Date: 06/16/2023

  This complaint is from a customer who signed a contract, provided a deposit, and attempted to cancel the contract over 5 months after signing the contract.

  They requested a refund of a non-refundable payment to secure the venue. (see contract and venue policies attached).

  Background:

  1. In May 2022, couple booked Upper Larimer wedding venue for wedding reception (reception date: June 24, 2023).

  2. In October 2022 the client contacted us and told us that their engagement was suspended (i.e. they lied- however we did not know that at the time).  They asked us for a refund.   We told them that venue payment is not refundable per the contract.  Out of courtesy, because they said their engagement was cancelled, we told them that we MAY consider a partial refund if we rebook a wedding for the same date minus the cost of marketing, advertising, and the costs to rebook a new client. 

  Extract from the email where client is lying: 

  Hello,
  
  I have some unfortunate news.... **** and I have decided to suspend our engagement, and thus we will no longer require a wedding reception or venue. It has been a heartbreaking time but we know it is for the best. 

  3. In June 2023, we learn that the couple's engagement was never cancelled (they just decided to book a different venue) - see link to couple's wedding website: *************************** and *********************** Wedding Website - The Knot. 

  4. Below is the response we provided via email to the customer. 

  - - - - 

  As per contract, license fee is not refundable.
  
  Based on the information that you provided that your engagement was suspended, we did offer you the ability to terminate the contract and not pay the remaining balance due in full as a courtesy. We also offered to partially return the payment previously received if the Venue receives a new rebooking (minus the rebooking costs). We did rebook the Venue.  However, the rebooking was for a trade show, that incurred rebooking costs higher than the payment received from you.
  
  Please note that Upper Larimer does not offer refunds to couples who decide to change the venue. Our policies are based on many factors that allow us to have longevity of our business and provide high quality of services to our clients.
  
  Because of the factors listed above, we are not able to provide any refund. 

  - - - 

  After this email, we received an email where customer threatened to extort us for the amounts paid that were not refundable per contract. That is when we referred him to have his attorney contact our attorney to better explain the contract and the rights and duties associated with it. 

  Weddings are typically booked 12 months in advance. This client signed a contract, paid a partial payment that was non-refundable. It is unreasonable for the client to expect refund after 5 months when our business we missed the opportunity to book a wedding in those 5 months. 

  We will be pursuing legal action against this consumer based on their attempted extortion, and their attempt to defame our company. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/23/2023

   
  Complaint: 20193263
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  The contract says, in its own complete sentence, 50% of the License Fee due upon signing of this Contract is not refundable., meaning the other 50% paid at the time of signing is refundable. Personal opinion on whether or not our reason for cancelling was truthful holds no bearing on whether we are due the refund guaranteed in the contract. We are not asking for 100% of the deposit, as the contract states we are not owed that. We also understand that there was time and effort put in to getting us to the point we were at when we cancelled and completely understand why we lost that portion of the deposit.
  
  I also asked for the receipt of the sales tax we paid in our deposit. The sales tax does not say in the contract that it is nonrefundable.Your response when I called and asked about this was that it was already paid to the city and thus cant be refunded. The lawyer I spoke to said sales tax is usually not applicable with a deposit as the transaction has not been completed,which is why I am still asking for the receipt. There may be a law hes unfamiliar with, which is why I asked for clarification in our emails, at which point you pointed me to your lawyer.
  
  The Upper Larimer Policies v04-23 that was attached from upper Larimer is a form ***** an I have never seen nor signed. With the revision number I am assuming this is a 2023 version and unless you can provide one that I signed that I could review, this document should be ignored.
  
  The threat of legal action has been noted. I do not deem my request for half of a deposit guaranteed in a contract as attempted extortion or that any of my actions been to defame a company other than supplying my personal review of my experience with Upper Larimer. I, however, feel like this is a scare tactic to get me to stop pursuing my right to a refund.
  
  I would still like to not drag this out. We can each take our due shares and move on without further action needed, but I am prepared to follow through with this if needed.

  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

  Business Response

  Date: 06/29/2023

  Attached is the earlier version of venue policies that was in force at the time this consumer signed the contract. The section governing booking fee and its non-refundable nature is the same as in the current version of venue policies. This is industry standard. No wedding venue in ******** refunds booking fee for a prime Saturday. There are many reasons for this. 

  Venue policies are a part of the venue rental contract. Please refer to section 4 of the venue rental contract. 

  As the venue fee is non-refundable (per contract and policies), payment of the 50% of the venue is a complete transaction that is subject to sales tax. The consumer's attorney may have confused payment of certain types of deposit with payment of non-refundable booking fee. Accordingly, sales tax has been calculated and paid to the ************************* in July 2022. 

  We regret any inconvenience that was caused to this consumer. We strive to assist every customer within the boundaries of the contract signed and full transparency. 

   

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/07/2023

  Complaint: 20193263
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  
  I do see the part in section 4 where it states, Venue Policies are attached and are incorporated as part of this Contract. I have all correspondence between us via email, and this document was never provided to us nor is it available anywhere I can find on your website. How would you expect the average person signing your contract to have knowledge of these policies unless they explicitly asked for them?

  
  You can call it a booking fee, but the contract states it is a license fee. And its very clear that 50% of the license fee due upon signing is not refundable, which means the other 50% is. Your booking fee, per your contract, means you would keep $1,668.75.

  
  At this point, youve asked me to follow policies you never provided. ****** told us Upper Larimer would give us a partial refund depending on the amount of marketing and sales effort required to re-book the date. Then deny me the refund due to a rebooking fee, not the sales or marketing effort that we were told the refund would be deducted from, while also threatening me with attempted extortion and defamation. You speak of assisting your customers, but have continuously misled,attacked, or lied to one of them.  I will state again that I am willing to come to a compromise on this and will end all further action if done so. If not, I will not be using my attorney and will pursue this in small claims court where I will leave it to the magistrates to settle this.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************