Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:12/11/2022

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  UnresolvedMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I have used Around the Clock Movers (ATCM) twice for the moving of home furniture.  The first move cost $2,275.00 (Labor, Trucking & Prep).  There were five movers, and the time it took for the move was 6.5 Hrs.  The second move cost $3,104.00 (Labor, Trucking & Prep).  There were six movers, and the time it took for the move was 7Hrs.
  I have questioned ATCM why there was an $829.00 difference between the first move and the second move.  We were in agreement with the following increases in cost:
  1)The moving truck fee increased by $50.00 due to higher trucking fees
  2)There was a $5.00 increase in costs per mover between the first and 2nd move.  Taking that into consideration that was an increase of $162.50. ((6.5HRx $5.00)x5 movers
  Taking away the added increases of #1 and 2, the difference between the 1st move and 2nd move is now $616.50.
  Out of the $616.50, ATCM charged me their workers lunch time of 20 minutes in which I supplied and paid for the pizza and drinks, but I did not agree to pay for their time off. I would like reimbursement for $120.00 (20minx6 movers-Approx. $1 per minute per employee).  I could not find in their contract that I am supposed to pay for lunch time which paying for lunch is not required in most businesses.   
  Note:  I had this same problem on the first move which is documented, and ATCM was supposed to reimburse me that money the first time, but they never did $130.00 due to a verbal agreement that we regarding pad rental fee in which I will discuss later.
  This now leaves a difference between the first move and the 2nd move of $496.50.  It is important to note that ATCM prides themselves on efficient moves per the website and their contract.  If that were the case, then my first move and 2nd move should have been close to the same cost.  Yet, this move took 6 movers while my first took 5 movers.
  ATCM will try to say each move is different, but I want to state the following facts below that my second move should have been easier and less costly for the following reasons:
  1)First move was from a 3 and half story home to a 3 story home.  The second move was from a 3 story home to a 2 story home.
  2)95% of the first household items were still wrapped and waiting to be moved for the second move.  So, it should have taking less time for prep for the second move.
  3)80% of the first household items were in two rooms next to the front door or in the garage prior to being moved to the second home.  Much of the heavy furniture and appliances were either in the garage or these two rooms, so there was not a lot of moving of the majority of furniture and appliances up and downstairs like the first move.
  4)In regards to the second move, 85% of the furniture was moved into basement storage room.  It is important to note, that ATCM was able to back up to our walk out patio, so the walk was about 30 ft. from their truck to the storage room and basement were the majority of items were unloaded.  This factor alone should have saved a lot of time.
  5)At numerous time, there were movers standing around and not being efficient.  I want to state ATCM had three really good movers, and the other three were not as good.
  6)ATCM did not use their time wisely as they unloaded everything in the basement first before they moved their truck to the front of the home.  They could have been unloading two different floors to be more efficient, so their movers could have been doing two different floors at the same time.
  7)ATCM will state, to which is a fair point that it took more time to uncover the household items on the second move, since they did not have to uncover it the first time.  I agree with that so the prep work cost that was saved on the second move was offset by the unwrapping of the items on the second move, so I consider that a wash.
  8)ATCM will state they are very careful while moving the furniture to why it could have taken longer.  That is true, but I had just as much damaged furniture and damaged railings and walls on the first and second move homes.  Unfortunately, I did not catch the damaged items, railings, and walls within the first 24 hours per contract, so I could not go after them for that.
  Based on all those factors, there is no reason why my second move needed an extra mover which is close to the cost of $496.00 which I am asking for.
  Lastly, it is important to discuss the pad rental fee that I was charged on the first move of $550.00, since I never unpacked the items from the first move.  Due to the unreported damage to my first home and feces left in our toilet for days in which ATCM did not tell me about, ATCM stated they would waive the pad rental fee of $550.00 due to the feces in the toilet and the damage to our prior home.  
  ATCM has stated they went above and beyond for me on the first move and will try to reinforce that point, but the reality is ATCM still owed me $130.00 for me paying for their movers lunch break for the first move, and the generosity of the rest of the pad rental fee waiver was for leaving feces in our broken toilet (which the feces I had to deal with) and the damage to our prior home.
  At this time, I am asking for $120.00 for reimbursement for lunch time that I paid for and $496.50 for the extra mover that was not needed.  If they do not want to pay these amounts in which they have stated they would not, then I ask for arbitration, so an arbitrator can decide if my claims warrant reimbursement.
  All I ask for is a third party to make the decision of whether I should be compensated or not for the extra worker that obviously was not needed.
  
  

  Business Response

  Date: 12/12/2022

  We aren't the mob, we aren't gangsters, we aren't out to get our customers and we are not "unreasonable". Mr. ******* you and your business are very much appreciated as is that of all our repeat clients. I believe you have some sensible reasonable claims that could have been presented a lot easier if not for the exaggerated claims you also felt a need to express. 

  
  1. We are at fault for providing you with a 6man crew that was less efficient than the 5man crew you originally had. That was our mistake and we apologize. I'd be upset also.

  
  2. I had a guy who needed to use the bathroom and unfortunately went in one that was not working before he knew. The way its described is as if my guy walked into the bathroom and used the floor. Where else would "Feces" go besides the toilet?

  
  3. You were not charged the $550 pad fee or the $130 you wanted for lunch the 1st time. Why bring it up as if you were? We reasonably heard your claims regarding any issue you had with us the 1st time.

  
  4. I've been doing this for over 15yrs now and every client everyday who decides that they want to pay for lunch has the brightest idea of buying "Pizza". (Quick, easy, cheap way to feel a lot of people. Plus it allows the client to keep an eye on the movers) Pizza is the one thing surely to slow down whomsoever you need to move in a quick and efficient manner. It also ensures that you'll keep multiple people in the bathroom. It never fails which is why I would recommend getting the movers something that would promote activity or simply allow the movers to go their own way and choose their own lunch. That time is always deducted from a clients bill. Basically, when guys feel they are being managed like children they tend not to deduct the "quarter hour" they were allowed to eat on a 7hr job, off the bill.

  
  5. What makes claims like this so hard is that instead of reaching out to us the day of the move as you are having issues or at the time of payment or even the the next day, you take the time to wait weeks after the move when its virtually impossible to pin-point what happened. 

  6. That said, this being the 1st time I personally have heard of this matter I will continue to reasonable as I always have been. I will reimburse you $500 for the additional mover that was placed on you most recent job and hope we can call this matter resolved. The address I have for you is **** ********* ***** ****** **** ** *****. Please let me know if this is correct.

   

  James H***** 

  Around The Clock Movers 

  ************

  Customer Answer

  Date: 12/14/2022

  
  
  Complaint: ********
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: See word document response

   

  Mr. Harvey,

  
  Thank You for your response and your willingness to work me regarding this matter.  At this time, I would like to address some of your comments as well as clarify some of my original comments.  My responses to your statements are in red.

  
  I never insinuated your company was mob or gangster related, so I am not sure where that statement came from and what you were alluding to.   I have my suspicions, but I will keep it at that. 
  As far as your company not being “unreasonable”, I would suggest you talk to Mr. Carter, since I started communication about this issue on Nov. 16.  After a few emails correspondences, Mr. Carter stopped answering my emails and here is what he stated,” Unfortunately there's nothing that we can do to remedy the situation.”  
  So as far as being unreasonable, I would say your company was, since I was told nothing could be done and was basically ignored by Mr. Carter.  I also told him in an email, that if we could not resolve this, I would be filing with the BBB.  I gave your company every chance to work this out prior to this complaint, but Mr. Carter refused.  
  
  
  1) I appreciate your understanding of the issues regarding the six man crew.
  
  2. I had a guy who needed to use the bathroom and unfortunately went in one that was not working before he knew. The way its described is as if my guy walked into the bathroom and used the floor. Where else would "Feces" go besides the toilet?
  2) The toilet issue is one of the points I would like to clarify from my original statement.  The toilet was in working condition prior to your employee using the rest room.  I have no problems with your employees using the rest room.  My problem is that your employee used the restroom, the toilet broke somehow, and that your employee did not notify us there was an issue with the toilet.  Again, the toilet was working prior to your employee using the toilet, and no one told us about the broken toilet.
  As far as where ”feces” goes, I am not sure what point you were trying to make, since that is a pretty simple concept to understand.  
  I will ask you this though, do you agree the right thing would have been for your employee and Mr. Carter to let me know there was an issue with the toilet instead of letting us find out days later there was a problem? 
  If this happened in your home, II guarantee you would not be happy either if you walked into that bathroom smell prior to a home closing.  
  All your employee had to do was lift up the flapper, so the toilet could have flushed, and then have the common courtesy to let me know he broke the toilet.
  
  3. You were not charged the $550 pad fee or the $130 you wanted for lunch the 1st time. Why bring it up as if you were? We reasonably heard your claims regarding any issue you had with us the 1st time.
  This is another point I would like to clarify from my original statement regarding the first move, since I did misspeak.  I was originally charged for lunch the first move, but Mr. Carter did refund $100.00 for the lunch (5 Guys at $20.00 for 20 minutes), since I brought that issue up.  
  What I should have stated in the original complaint was the following:  I was originally quoted 5 Guys at $280.00, and that is the main reason I went with your company.  However on the day of the move, I was then charged 5 Guys at $300.00, so the price changed $20.00 per hour.  The total reimbursement cost I was asking for was $130.00 (5 Guys at $20.00 x 6.5 hours).  
  The reason I brought the $130.00 labor overcharge was tied to the $550.00 pad fee.  To be clear, Mr. Carter did give a credit of $500.00 (not $550.00-look at contract) for the pad rental fee.  
  However, the $130.00 refund was to be applied to the $550.00 pad rental credit.  So in reality, I still paid $130.00 (I was never reimbursed for the overcharge) plus $50.00 out of the $550.00 pad rental credit.  
  In total, I paid $180.00 out of the $550.00, so it is not a true statement that I was credited $550.00.  I did appreciate the $370.00 credit, but that was for the issues I described in my original complaint.
  
  4. I've been doing this for over 15yrs now and every client everyday who decides that they want to pay for lunch has the brightest idea of buying "Pizza". (Quick, easy, cheap way to feel a lot of people. Plus it allows the client to keep an eye on the movers) Pizza is the one thing surely to slow down whomsoever you need to move in a quick and efficient manner. It also ensures that you'll keep multiple people in the bathroom. It never fails which is why I would recommend getting the movers something that would promote activity or simply allow the movers to go their own way and choose their own lunch. That time is always deducted from a clients bill. Basically, when guys feel they are being managed like children they tend not to deduct the "quarter hour" they were allowed to eat on a 7hr job, off the bill.
  I am not happy with above comments and comments like those make only resolving this situation much harder.  
  In regards to whether lunch hours should be paid or not, I would like you to understand how some customers view this topic.
  First, I had no obligation to pay for lunch which was close to $100.00.  My family and I are not made out of money, so $100.00 is a lot for us.  I paid for lunch out of appreciation for the work your employees did, so it is an insult to say what you did.  
  Before you make comments like you did above, I asked your employees if Pizza was ok, and they were appreciative of the thought.  If Pizza slowed them down and made them go to the bathroom more, they should have told me that.  Mr. Carter and the crew seemed to have no problems with the pizza, since they ate most of it.
  As far as feeding them pizza so I can keep an eye on them that to me is just a paranoid comment.  
  In regards to your comment, lunch time is always deducted from a client’s bill.  That is not a true statement, since you originally charged me for lunch the first move until I brought it up.  Also, it would be interesting to see how many of your contracts state that you did charge your customers for lunch.  I could be wrong, but my guess is there are a lot of contracts stating you charged lunch hours.
  As far as treating your employees like children, that is a complete misrepresentation of the situation.  I have the utmost respect for people who perform hard manual work and for you to make a statement like that is flat out wrong and was not the case at all.  
  Lastly and since you insinuated I was cheap and I treated your crew like children, I want to put a few things in perspective for you.  I tipped your crew $200.00 for realistically 5 ½ (not 7) hours of actual work, and I paid $150.00 for a questionable heavy lift item which I was never charged for during the first move.  
  
  5. What makes claims like this so hard is that instead of reaching out to us the day of the move as you are having issues or at the time of payment or even the the next day, you take the time to wait weeks after the move when its virtually impossible to pin-point what happened. 
  As I explained to Mr. Carter, it is an unrealistic expectation to review and check for all problems in just one day.  Even today, I am sure I will find more items that were probably damaged by your company.  Since there was a lot of research I had to do between the first move and 2nd move, it did take me a while to get back to you.  I wanted to make sure I had my facts straight, and that was the reason for the delay.  
  I do disagree with your statement that it is virtually impossible to pin point what happened.  In my opinion, common sense can be applied in a situation like this, and you even admitted that a five man crew would have worked, so it was not impossible to go through my claim.
  

  6. That said, this being the 1st time I personally have heard of this matter I will continue to reasonable as I always have been. I will reimburse you $500 for the additional mover that was placed on you most recent job and hope we can call this matter resolved. The address I have for you is **** ********* ***** ****** **** ** *****. Please let me know if this is correct.
  In regards to hearing this for the first time, that is not my fault you and Mr. Carter did not discuss this matter as I believe he is an owner as well.  I was under the assumption he would have talked to you, but that obviously was not the case.  
  As I stated before, I tried to work this out with your company, but Mr. Carter said nothing could be done and basically ignored me at one point in time.  
  As far as being reasonable, I am trying to be reasonable as well.  I do appreciate your understanding regarding the six man crew vs 5 man crew, but I would like to be refunded for the lunch time as well.  As you stated before, lunch time is usually deducted, and there is nothing in the contract that states I have to pay for your employees lunch time.
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  
  
  **** *******

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/17/2023

  Before this is closed, I would like the BBB to ask the business to arbitrate.  I am willing to pay my share of the arbitration cost..thank you

  Customer Answer

  Date: 02/10/2023

  I appreciate.  I would accept what he offered to date, but I would like the time I was charged for their lunch hour to be reimbursed.  He did admit that they normally do not charge for lunch, so this should get resolved...thank you for your help