Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/24/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I recently purchased a 2007 Itasca horizon ** but one of the awnings was broken on it so I wanted to get the same type of awning or replacement awning for this vehicle so on March 27,2023 I went to a recommended *************** dealership and talk to ************ was told that my awning was discontinued but the awning that replaced it the only difference that would be is the color I can only get it in black or white, not dark gray, which was the color of mine so purchased the awning for $2613.99 + $402.08 for shipping . I received the awning.on April 20 2023 I took it down to have it installed when they open the crate and they seen that the motor was on the opposite end My original awning motor is on the left-hand side but the awning they sent is on the right hand side so that means that they have to drill holes in the ** and run electrical through the panel and take stuff apart which is additional cost so called ***** and told him that the awning was incorrect and ask if they had the correct awning that opened on the left-hand side he called Dometic and they told him thats the only one they make for that coach and told him I wanted to return the the awning that I would go and buy an aftermarket awning with the motor on the left-hand side he told me that he needed to call Dometic The maker of the replacement awning A short time later, a person by the name of ***** called from Lichtsinn RV service department and told me that they do not make a awning with the motor on the right hand side. I told him that I wanted to return the awning and I would find one with a motor on the left-hand side. He told me, that I cannot return it, and that he could do nothing for me for me very rude . I went to Winnebago dealership to ensure that I would get the proper part when I ordered the online they had a part number and a picture and Im sure they can see that the electrical was on the opposite end if they took time to look at both I feel they just wanted to make a sale and took advantage of me and just make a sell.

  Business Response

  Date: 04/25/2023

  ****** originally called asking for a replacement for his original awning and was notified by ***** that this part was no longer available and Dometic, the awning manufacturer, provided a replacement awning part #. As parts are discontinued we find the best available replacement part, which we did with the manufacturer recommendation and this was explained to *************  Attached you will find the invoice provided to the guest. At the bottom it does specifically note that any special order parts, such as the awning that ****** ordered, are not eligible for return. As a goodwill gesture, since ****** was not happy with the awning, we also did reach out to Dometic to see if a return was at all possible and they said that was not an option. We have fulfilled everything we committed to ****** as spelled out in the invoice, finding the closest replacement part and shipping it to him. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 04/25/2023

   
  Complaint: 19967855
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  I was told by ***** that the awning was the replacement awning for that coach, and that the only difference would be they do not make it in gray. They only make it in black and white so this supplier did not fulfill its obligation. It did not look into whether the plug was on the left or the right of the awning all they told me is that I would have to have it painted. so whoever responded to this is not telling the truth If they had a told me, I would have to rewire and poke holes in my coach in order to make the only pet. I definitely would not about it.
  Sincerely,
  
  ***************************

  Business Response

  Date: 04/26/2023

  We simply provided ****** the information we were supplied by Dometic, the manufacturer. They provided us the replacement part# for his awning, which is what was sent to the customer. We did reach out to Dometic directly to address ******'s concern, as I mentioned earlier, and were provided this same information. The part # they provided is the replacement part# for his awning. If ****** would like to reach out to Dometic directly he can reach them at the following:

  End Consumer Product Support -Phone: **************
  E-Mail - *********************************
  End Consumer Online Order Support  email: ***************************

  Again, we specifically addressed the return of custom products in the parts invoice we previously provided ******. 

   

• Initial Complaint

  Date:01/12/2023

  Type:Order Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  My situation is as follows:- On 7/23/21 I signed contract to purchase a 2022 Winnebago View 24D for $144,652 & placed a $5K down payment - Due to "Supply Chain" delays I was notified on 7/12/22 that my RV was showing a tentative completion date between 8/16/22 - 8/18/22 *** started the process of securing financing, insurance, a RV Storage location, etc.- That week I was also notified that the price on my RV had increased & was now $161,719 - I was scheduled to fly from my home in *******, ** to pickup my RV on 9/29/2022 - The week of 9/18/22 I was pressed by the sales team to send my $80K down **************** contracts (including a *********** Loan which Lichtsinn RV brokered for $76,719) to them by 9/22/22 which I did - On 9/22/22 I received a voice mail stating "Lichtsinn just got a notification of a Stop Ship from ********** *** would not be able to pickup my RV - I did some research & discovered the ***** knew of the Winnebago Stop Ship on 9/16/22 - On 9/28/22 I requested a refund my $80K down payment if the recall fix was not delivered by 10/13/22 & they refused - On 10/14/22 I requested I be compensated for the out-of-pocket expenses associated with this delay but with no response. These expenses are, as of the date of this complaint, as follows: - - RV Storage: $80/month X 5 months = $400 - - Airline Ticket Cancellation Fee: $100/ticket = $200 - - 30 Day Temporary Tag that will not be needed = $25 - - Harvest Host subscription = $99 - - RV Insurance for an RV I do not have use of ( $963.52/Year) = $80.30/month X 5 months = $402 - - $1,086 1st month loan payment due 11/2/2022 for an RV I do not have use of X 3 months = $3,258 - - 11% New Vehicle 1st year depreciation prorated for 5 months = $7,412 In Summary, I am questioning their Business Practices because I have no RV, Lichtsinn RV has my RV & all my money, I have spent $11,796 in out-of-pocket expenses to date and incurring more expenses each month with no guarantee that I will be compensated.

  Business Response

  Date: 01/18/2023

  The Schmidts entered into an agreement with Lichtsinn RV to place a special order for a Winnebago View that was not in stock and was a custom order. Upon contracting with Lichtsinn RV, the Schmidts purchase agreement outlined the delivery date for their Custom Order as being TBD and specifically outlined the buyer being responsible for any price increase passed on by ******************* **** at dealer cost.
  

  ***** and ***** acknowledged both as per their signed purchase agreement. During production of their custom ordered ** Lichtsinn RV and the Schmidts were in communication with updates as it pertained to their unit as follows:
  08/08/2022 Lichtsinn RV called the Schmidts to notify them their custom ** had arrived and would be available for pickup within the next 2-3 weeks for physical delivery.
  8/9/2022 Conversation with the Schmidts resulted in a preliminary delivery date for late August 2022. 
  8/12/2022 the Schmidts requested to delay their ** pick up until late September; in adherence to our 23-week delivery policy the Schmidts requested to early close so they could pick up the ** at a later date and store their ** cost free at Lichtsinn RV until their schedule allowed for physical delivery.
  Through 8/12/2022-09/16/2022 Multiple attempts by Lichtsinn RV to coordinate early closing were made.
  09/22/22 Guests closing documents were received and processed. Lichtsinn RV fulfilled our closing responsibilities and agreed to accommodate the guests request to delay physical delivery.

  We notified the Schmidts of the recall issued by *********/*************. They issued the order to stop ship and we complied with Federal Law, not to deliver their recalled **. While their delivery timing request resulted in an unfortunate timing of events with the recall, we were complying with Federal Law to not physically deliver the ** until the recall was resolved.
  1/13/2023 The unit is now recall free and available for delivery.
  1/15/2023 The guest has requested a subsequent delay in delivery and wants to pursue a February Delivery date.
  We regret the guests circumstance but feel we acted with urgency to help the guest take delivery when their Custom Order was originally available for pick up the beginning of August 2022.  We will continue to work with the Schmidts to coordinate their delivery day and to support them through their ** ownership experience.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/27/2023

   
  Complaint: 18725326
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  I believe the Business has shaded the truth in their response.  I will not take the time and highlight the specifics of their response that I take issue with unless you would like me to.  I think it is very simple and clear as to the primary issue at hand.  The Business accepted my contract AFTER they were notified of the stop ship by *********. I have attached the 2 documents that support this fact which are; 1. The Winnebago Dealer Recall Notification dated 9/21/2022 and 2. All my signed purchase documents dated 9/22/2022 which were signed by both myself & the Business.  As a note, these purchase documents were not received by the Business until 9/22/2022 as I overnighted them on 9/21/2022 and it was on 9/22/2022 that I got a call from the business notifying me that there was a Stop Ship Recall issued by Winnebago.  The result of these facts are that i have not had access to my new RV for the duration of the time period from 9/22/22 until 1/13/23.  During that period, I incurred expenses of $11,796 in loan payments, insurance, storage and travel expenses.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *************************

  Business Response

  Date: 01/31/2023

  Thank you for your response, while we regret the guests circumstance, we feel we acted with persistence and urgency to help the guest take delivery when their Custom Order was available for pick up the beginning of August 2022.  As previously described, the guest requested delay in delivery and to accommodate their request we processed paperwork accordingly.The guests closing documents were processed PRIOR to us receiving notification of the recall. Lichtsinn RV fulfilled our closing responsibilities to accommodate the guests request to delay physical delivery. While their request resulted in an unfortunate timing of events, we were complying with Federal Law to not physically deliver the ** until the recall was resolved. We will continue to work with the Schmidts to coordinate their delivery day and to support them through their ** ownership experience.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:11/14/2022

  Type:Delivery Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  On MAR 10, 2021, I emailed *************************, a salesman at Lichtsinn RV, with questions about the Winnebago View/Navion. I also asked him about the ordering process. I was told that Lichtsinn keeps a string of RVs on order with Winnebago, & one of those would be modified to our order preferences. The order would be secured with a non-refundable deposit of $5,000.00. **** explained that the deposit was non-refundable because it would ensure me that Lichtsinn would not cancel my order and sell the coach to another buyer at a higher price. This practice is meant to protect the buyer. After months of talking & sending questions to **** via phone, text, or ************* pinging me to ask if I was ready to purchase, I placed an internet order on SEP 29, 2021 for a 2022 Winnebago Navion V floorplan with Lichtsinn RV, and secured the order with a credit card deposit of $5,000.00. When I placed the order, **** verbally told me to expect delivery in MAY 2022. Since I placed the order, I have been periodically receiving generic Coach Update emails with no delivery date, but included encouraging verbiage such as training when I pick up the *** & how Id receive a new update soon, etc. JUL 27, 2022, we received a different generic email that said delivery ETA was the end of NOV. OCT 2022, I received the same generic email that said delivery ETA was now at the end of DEC 2022, & no explanation for the change in delivery date. Other buyers who ordered at the same time I did received their coach in AUG 2022. I feel that Lichtsinn misled me during this purchase. If Lichtsinn keeps RVs in the ordering queue, why has it taken over a year, yet they still sell new View/Navion RVs off of their lot? The sales contract is carefully worded to cover Lichtsinn under all conditions. It's unethical for Lichtsinn to enforce an open-ended contract & refuse to refund my deposit.

  Business Response

  Date: 11/14/2022

  *********************** and his wife contracted to purchase a special-order **************** 24V from our dealership on September 29th,2021.  At the time of order, guests agreed to a non-refundable down payment of $5,000.00 for us to place a special order with their specified colors and equipment, from ********************* This order is currently scheduled for production and arrival in the next few months and is being built as per the guests' specifications and selections.  At the time of purchase, the guests were fully aware of the unknown timeframe, as they were purchasing an unscheduled **.  The timeframe that this order has taken is just as it has been over the last two years, as the ** industry deals with vendor constraints and delays. The guests were completely aware of the expected wait time and timeframe of their order.  The Customer's statement that they were misled during the purchase is not accurate as we have communicated any information as soon as we receive it.
  
  Should the guest choose to not accept delivery of their **, they may be released from the agreed upon purchase price, less the non-refundable down payment of $5,000.00.  (Noted on our ********** Vehicle Purchase Agreement).  As a result of the purchase cancellation,Lichtsinn RV will subsequently carry all accumulated costs associated with stocking the **; including compiling interest fees, insurance and marketing expenses until an alternative buyer is found for the unit.
  
  On November 2nd, 2022, the guests called in and informed Lichtsinn RV that they were intending to purchase a different ** locally and would not be fulfilling their commitment to purchase the special order Navion 24V with Lichtsinn RV and now are requesting their down payment be refunded.  On November 4th, 2022, the guests emailed Lichtsinn RV stating they in fact had purchased a 2023 View 24V locally.  We explained to them that they could rescind their ********** Vehicle Purchase Agreement, but the original $5,000 non-refundable down payment would not be refunded, as agreed and signed upon.  

  While the guest is not happy with this resolution -we are simply following our original agreement with them, while at the same time agreeing to take the burden of stocking the ** they agreed to purchase. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 12/28/2022

  REF: BBB Complaint #******** This complaint has NOT been resolved, and we have heard nothing from Lichtsinn since we received (and have NOT signed) their forfeiture of deposit email 11/7/22, which included a paragraph to squelch any HONEST negative reviews we might make on social media to keep other buyers from learning the truth about their business practices. We were not fully aware of the unknown timeframe when we placed the order. Of course they wouldnt put any dates in writing, but the salesman DID verbally falsely encourage and mislead us with vague words like soon, and summer, and a couple of weeks or months whenever we contacted him by phone, and he only admitted there were supply issues i.e. generators or HVAC when we specifically asked about what wed read on social media. The generic coach update emails were also falsely encouraging but continuously pushed the delivery date. As for special orders, the options are very limited-none of which would keep this dealer from finding an alternate buyer. As for the accumulated costs, were sure the price has increased after nearly 1 years, which should more than cover them. We would never have placed $5,000 dollars of our hard-earned money as a deposit on an open-ended contract. And why is it that another guest who ordered at the same time we did, took delivery of their coach in August 2022? Sadly, we are not the only guests in this situation, and the complaints are nearly identical, word for word. It appears that this dealer entices buyers to special order their RV at an attractive discount, at the cost of a non-refundable deposit of $5,000. Delivery of special order RVs get pushed into infinity as the non-discounted priced RVs hit their lot. It is a win-win situation for the dealer. If the special order guest does not wait indefinitely for a coach that *** never be delivered, the dealer gets to keep the guests deposit, and sell that unit at a higher price than the original discounted price while claiming to have incurred stocking, interest, insurance, and marketing expenses. We wish we had read the BBB reviews prior to trusting Lichtsinn.

  Business Response

  Date: 12/28/2022

  Nothing has changed from our original response. So to continue this dialogue, and address some new claims:

  The special order that ****** committed to purchase is incremental to our normal stocking orders . . . we will incur insurance expense, interest expense, and marketing expense on the special-ordered ** until it is purchased by someone else.
  

  We continue to stand behind our employee in this scenario and strongly disagree with the character misrepresentation the Leachs are communicating.
  

  All special orders are kept in order of their original purchase date this has not changed over the last three years at our dealership, as order timeframes continued to be extended by the manufacturer due to chassis and material constraints.  As we shared before, at the time of purchase, the guests were fully aware of the unknown timeframe, as they were purchasing an unscheduled **.  The timeframe that this order has taken is just as it has been over the last two years, as the ** industry deals with vendor constraints and delays. The guests were completely aware of the expected wait time and timeframe of their order.  The Customer's statement that they were misled during the purchase is not accurate as we have communicated any information as soon as we receive it.
  

  In response to the guests comment that we "entice" guests to order their **s, this is untrue and is not our business practice. They signed an agreement, agreeing to purchase a custom **.  We accept special orders to deliver them to our guests who made the original commitment to purchase them and in almost every instance of a special order, we complete the purchase process with the guest who placed the special order in the first place and help support them in their ** ownership experience.  In early November 2022, the Leachs elected to purchase another ** from another dealer coincidentally, their special order has since arrived at our dealership and is accruing marketing, insurance, interest and stocking expense until it is sold.   While the guest is not happy with this resolution -we are simply following our original agreement with them, while at the same time agreeing to take the burden of stocking the ** they agreed to purchase. While buying another ** from another dealer in the interim may have precipitated their complaint, we continue to follow and uphold our original agreement with them. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:10/11/2022

  Type:Delivery Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Oct 11 2021 I signed a contract with Lichtsinn Rv to order a winnebago View 24d with the understanding that delivery would be early spring of 2022. I started receiving generic updates monthly by email. Istarted checking in with my sales person regularly and found no build date or chassis number available. Expected production date kept getting pushed out until expectation was delivery in early 2023 with considerable price increases.On July 14 2022 I notified Lichtsinn to cancel my order and to refund my $5000 deposit. Was told it is non refundable. I have followed up with other so called managers to no avail. Since it has cost them nothing to date I would just like my money back. It doesn't seem possible that a contract can have no time frame or limit to price hike and still be valid.

  Business Response

  Date: 10/12/2022

  This Guest contracted to purchase a special-order Winnebago View 24D from our dealership on October 11, 2021.  At the time of order, the guest agreed to a non-refundable down payment of $5,000.00 in order for us to place a special order specifically for them with their specified colors and equipment, from Winnebago Industries  This order is currently scheduled for production and arrival in the next few months, and is being built as per the guests'specifications and selections.  At the time of purchase, no timeframe was given and guests were fully aware of the unknown timeframe, as they were purchasing an unscheduled **.  The timeframe length that this order has taken is just as it has been over the last two years, as the ** industry deals with vendor constraints and delays. The guests were aware of the expected wait time and timeframe of their order.  The Customer's statement that they expected their delivery in early spring of 2022 is not accurate per our log of all communication with the guest as timing was never addressed.
  
  Should the guest choose to not accept delivery of their **, they may be released from the agreed upon purchase price, less the non-refundable down payment of $5,000.00.  (Noted on our ********** Vehicle Purchase Agreement)  As a result of the purchase cancellation,Lichtsinn RV will subsequently carry all accumulated costs associated with stocking the **; including compiling interest fees, insurance and marketing expenses until an alternative buyer is found for the unit.
  
  On August 9, 2022, the guests called and expressed that they no longer wanted their order.  We explained to them that they could rescind their ********** Vehicle Purchase Agreement, but the original $5,000 non-refundable down payment would not be refunded, as they signed and agreed in their purchase agreement.  Furthermore, as a goodwill gesture, on August 9, 2022, we agreed to refund the $5,000 down payment if we are able to find new buyers for their unit prior to it arriving at our dealership from the factory and us beginning to incur lot charges.  However, if we do not have someone purchase their unit prior to its arrival, we will hold them to their original signed agreement and the $5,000 down payment will remain non-refundable.  This accommodation was a goodwill gesture and will continue to be honored, if we are able to re-sell the ** prior to its arrival.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/13/2022

   
  Complaint: 18194630
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

  To start, let's set the record straight. I notified Lichtsinn RV via email to salesperson, *****************, on 7/14/2022, not 8/9/2022 as indicated by Lichtsinn's response, of our desire to cancel our order and request a refund of our $5,000 deposit. I followed up with a phone call to **** on the same day.  He replied he would take the request to the team and get back to me that day or the next.  After no response for a week, I left **** a subsequent voicemail on July19th.  On July 20th, I received an email from **** saying there had been no decision. On August 9th, Sales Manager, *****************************, responded by phone to my request to escalate the situation.  At this time he indicated they would refund our deposit only if they could sell this unit.

  At the time of the contract signing, ******************* walked a careful line of not giving a set date but indicated that current deliveries were from orders placed six months prior and that once our order was placed we would start receiving regular updates with a chassis number with in the next two months. Subsequent phone conversations with ****, at least every other month, pushed out the delivery date from spring of 2022, incrementally with each conversation, until the final phone call on 7/12/2022 in which he said a delivery date of early 2023 was likely.  In addition, I was told there would be a minimum of $7,000 in price hikes at that time, and likely more by delivery.  These are the facts on which we based our decision on 7/14/2022 to cancel the order.

  Under contract law, the doctrine of utmost good faith states that parties in a contract must act honestly, not witholding information or misleading each other.  Lichtsinn RV's conduct from the start has mispresented facts and is borderline fraudulent, both of which are grounds for voiding a contract. A reasonable person, such as myself, would never enter into a contract with an unlimited  delivery time and unlimited price hikes.

  Per Lichtsinn's response, the ** in question is as of yet still not in production. We requested in July to cancel an order that, confirmed by Lichtsinn three months later, is still far from production.

  I do not trust any act of good faith coming from people whom have demonstrated none.

  
  Sincerely,
  
  *******************

  Business Response

  Date: 10/14/2022

  On August 9, 2022 we offered the customer the ability to receive his agreed upon non-refundable down payment back if we are able to secure a new purchaser for his special order.  This is a goodwill gesture that will result in a refund of his non-refundable down payment if we are able to sell it to another party.  If we are not able to, we will honor the terms of the contract that the customer agreed to at the time of his special order.  None of these terms have changed since the original ********** Vehicle Purchase Agreement was signed and agreed to and the guest provided you a copy of, so we will fulfill our end of the contract.
  

  Throughout the build process of this order, as well as hundreds of others, we have followed the same order process and production process with this customer.  Among other things, his down payment has ensured that his order has stayed in consecutive order with the manufacturer and while we have faced delays, this was explained to the customer at the time of order, as over the last two years COVID workforce disruptions, vendor supply constraints and shipping delays on components have made production timelines erratic and unpredictable.  When his RV is completed by *********, we will take delivery of it at our dealership and will then own it, which the down payment also provides compensation for. We have extended this good will gesture of refunding his deposit if we are able to sell it to another party which we will proactively try to do. While they guest may prefer we refund his deposit now, that is not what the original agreement stated and we are already going above and beyond by offering the goodwill gesture.