Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:05/15/2024

  Type:Order Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Date of transaction April 1, 2024 Paid $620 2nd installment Total Paid $1,240 Travel AL - IN and *******, Hotel 2 nights in IN, 3 nights in **. 1st mini ****************** The business committed to providing us with 2 AAA Hockey Tournaments and 2 High-End ************** - Elite Coaching growing players from their AA to AAA.The nature of the dispute is that ********************* at Five Hole Hockey provided deceptive advertising and misleading claims. **** called around rinks looking for players, then scouted our son. He invited him to play on his AAA spring-summer team. We would soon find out that the team was not AAA and that we were not playing in a AAA tournament, we played AA and the kids on the team were not AAA. Most were younger & level A. The coaching at the mini-camp was not as described. The other kids were way behind so that did not benefit my child. A lot of standing around and no one to push him. This did not help my son whatsoever! We wouldn't have committed otherwise. Driving from AL to IN. Then from AL to **. After the 1st tournament and minicamp, we advised **** that what he said was not being delivered and that we were unhappy with his program and upset that he made false claims. We told him that we were not going to continue with his program because this was not benefiting our son. We asked for our money back for the 2nd mini-camp and tournament which we had not attended yet. We were going to take our losses because this was taking our son backward not forward. We felt duped! **** said, "Look at your contract and you are not getting a dime back". WOW! Then in retaliation started making false claims to cover himself! My son never got kicked off his team! FACT! We pulled him! He didn't play the last game of the tournament because he was getting beat down. **** also did this to someone else. Single grandma! She paid $1320, but her grandson did not attend one thing five hole. Only got $180 back! She watched on livebarn and said this was not what **** promised.

  Business Response

  Date: 05/20/2024

  May 20, 2024
  
  
  Better Business Bureau
  ************************************
  ************, IN 46241
  
  Re: Complaint by ***********************, Case ID ********
  
  Ladies and Gentlemen:
  
  We write in response to the complaint submitted by *********************** regarding Five Hole Hockey (5 Hole Hockey). 5 Hole Hockey disputes Ms. ******* allegations and submits that 5 Hole Hockey acted in good faith and did what it could to resolve the dispute with the *******.  5 Hole Hockey denies that the ******* are entitled to any refund or remuneration from 5 Hole Hockey. 
  
  We would like to clarify a few points regarding 5 Hole Hockey and the ******* involvement with our organization:
  
  Referral and Invitation: Ms. ******* son was recommended to 5 Hole Hockey and was invited to play on our team based on that referral. We did not scout ****************** son, nor did we call any rinks, nor have we ever been to a rink in ********
  
  AAA Tournaments and Showcases: 5 Hole Hockey provides players with the opportunity to participate in AAA hockey tournaments and showcases. For instance, we recently participated in the Detroit AAA Showdown held from April *****, 2024, in ****************** son participated. Neither 5 Hole Hockey nor any other hockey program guarantees success or a certain outcome. Nor can 5 Hole Hockey control which other teams or players participate in tournaments in which 5 Hole Hockey participates.
  
  Development Focus: Our primary focus is the hockey development of our players. We aim to expose our players to high-quality competition and help them grow as hockey players. While we cannot guarantee specific outcomes, we have a successful track record of participants advancing to higher teams and junior hockey.
  
  Tournament Scheduling: Neither 5 Hole Hockey nor any other hockey program guarantees success or a certain outcome. Nor can we or any other team they control which other teams or players participate in tournaments in which 5 Hole Hockey participates. Our program participates in AAA tournaments, which provides valuable experience and challenges our players to help in their growth and development in the sport.
  
  Minicamps: Minicamps are development focused. We strive to challenge our players as individuals and in a team. At no point until now was it ever brought up that the ****************** son was not being challenged. In fact, ****************** husband mentioned to a member of the 5 Hole Hockey staff during the last day of the minicamp they attended that he was very happy with the camp and was glad they came.   
  
  Consumer statements: **************** was not present at either the minicamp or the Detroit AAA Showdown.  Additionally, **************** never voiced any of the concerns she is stating in her complaint herself.  **************** cannot quote any member of 5 Hole Hockey or talk firsthand about anything that *** have happened at these two events as she was not present. Furthermore, **************** cannot speak to anything said in conversations that she was not present for. No member of 5 Hole Hockey ever said Look at your contract and you are not getting a dime back.  The situation **************** is referring to occurred in front of multiple witnesses who can attest that no such statement was ever made by any member of 5 Hole Hockey.
  
  Track Record of Incidents with Consumer & Consumers Husband: **************** and her husband established a track record of concerning behavior starting at first minicamp and that behavior has continued through now. Throughout Ms. ******* **** time with 5 Hole Hockey we made every attempt to do right by him, the player, and to keep him involved in our program.  Throughout the ******* time with our program, we communicated with all parties involved and set clear expectations which **************** and her family repeatedly acknowledged.
  
  Post first minicamp call 1: We received a call one day after the first minicamp ended from ****************** husband, who called us to discuss their son.  Main topic was moving him to the older team. **************** made a few profanity laden, derogatory comments about our team.  At no time did ****************** husband mention the quality of coaching their son received. **************** did ask about their son playing up an age level.  That was discussed and our response was that it *** be possible, but we first wanted to see him play a few games at his age level.  Once that happened, we would be happy to discuss it further and see if any changes could be made that would be in their **** best interest. We asked about a behavior issue involving their player that was brought to our attention after the first minicamp ended.  **************** said he was unaware of the issue and that he would inquire and get back to us.  During this conversation we let **************** know that we have a zero tolerance policy for disrespectful behavior by any member of our program (this was communicated in the first player-parent meeting of the minicamp as well). **************** acknowledged he understood.
  
  The derogatory comments made by **************** in this conversation are a violation of 5 Hole Hockeys Policies and Code of Conduct.
  
  Our staff discussed the violations and chose to monitor the situation as we felt it was best for the player involved for us to try to have him be a part of the program and not be expelled due to the action of the players parent.
  
   Post first minicamp call 2: ****************** husband called us again one day after minicamp 1.  He relayed what he learned from his son regarding the incident at minicamp that we had mentioned.  **************** proceeded to insult other players and families on the team in this conversation. His statements were aggressive and were profanity laden. We told him again we have a Zero Tolerance Policy.  **************** acknowledged that he understood.  We told him we would complete our investigation of the actions and address them and that it was important to us that all parties be on the same page. This was addressed at the Detroit AAA Showdown in ******** as part of a player and parent meeting with the entire team prior to any team activities taking place.
  
  The insults and aggressive statements made by ****************** husband in this conversation are a violation of our Policies and Code of Conduct.
  
  Our staff,again, discussed the violations and chose to continue to monitor the situation as we felt it was best for the player involved for us to try to have him be a part of the program and not be expelled due to the action of the players parent.
  
  
  Hotel incident Detroit AAA Showdown Tournament: In *******, prior to the first game at the Detroit AAA Showdown Tournament, **************** approached one of our staff regarding dress code. Our staff member responded that their son was fine with the clothes he had, it was no problem. **************** became aggressive with our staff member.  Our staff member calmly stated the same statement again. **************** continued to be aggressive towards our staff member.  At this point, our staff member told **************** that they had things that needed to be taken care of (a true statement) and walked away. **************** continued to yell at our staff member across the parking lot.
  
  Mr. ******* behavior in this conversation is a violation of our Policies and Code of Conduct.
  
  Our staff discussed the violation and chose to monitor the situation as we felt it was best for the player involved for us to try to have him be a part of the program and not be expelled due to the action of the players parent.
  
  Game 2 incident Detroit AAA Showdown: ****************** son was benched during game 2 at the Detroit AAA Showdown for one shift due to unnecessarily, and without provocation or excuse, shoving his own teammate on the ice during the game.  ****************** son missed one shift (approximately 45 seconds of the game), then he was put back in the line up and played the rest of the game.  The player was told why he was benched when it happened and the player acknowledged he understood why we took this action. ****************** husband was told immediately after the game by our staff member about why his son was benched and was asked to inquire with his son about what happened, and we let him know that if he had any questions after doing so to simply ask us and we will gladly tell him.
  
  ****************** **** actions on the ice to one of his teammates is a violation of our Code of Conduct.
  
  Our staff discussed the violation and chose to monitor the situation as, to this point, ***************** son had not demonstrated concerning behavior on a regular or consistent basis. We continued to feel that we should try to do the right thing for the player and help him grow as a hockey player.
  
  After Game 3 Incident Detroit AAA Showdown: ****************** husband approached our staff member and said he asked his son why he was benched in the earlier game, then proceeded to tell our staff member a story that was untrue.  Our staff member tried to respond but was cut off by ****************.  At that point, while the parties were still at the ice rink for the Detroit AAA Showdown, ****************** husband demanded a refund at the rink.  He was irate, physically aggressive, and verbally abusive throughout this incident.  His statements to our staff were profanity laded again.  ****************** husband then proceeded to physically threaten multiple people including: a member of the 5 Hole Hockey staff, that staff members family, and other families and players (which players are twelve to fourteen years old) of 5 Hole Hockey.  This incident and ****************** statements were witnessed by others.  The 5 Hole Hockey staff member that ****************** verbally abused and physically threatened asked numerous times during this incident for the **************** to leave the rink and not to come back.
  
  The actions of the Consumer and her husband does not warrant or require a refund. Such conduct violates our Zero Tolerance policy #** again, it also violates Policy #** as well as violates our Code of Conduct.
  
  Post Detroit AAA Showdown Harassment: After the incident with ****************** husband at the rink during the Detroit AAA Showdown tournament, members of the 5 Hole Hockey staff received numerous phone calls and texts messages from **************** and **************** demanding a refund, making false accusations and making further threats. **************** also made accusations on social media that are false and defamatory.
  
  Authorities Were Notified: Due to the nature of the threats, both verbal and physical, made by ****************** husband, law enforcement in the relevant jurisdictions and SafeSport were notified of the incident. We do not take the physical and verbal threats made by ****************** husband or the harassing phone calls and texts by **************** and her husband lightly.  The reports to law enforcement and SafeSport were necessary and, under SafeSport rules are required, in light of the nature and extent of the threats made by ****************.  The reports were not retaliatory. 
  
  `Complaints by Consumer regarding Third Party: **************** does not have knowledge of all details of any situation with any another players or families in our program and as a result,cannot make accurate statements regarding others.  We deny that we acted wrongfully towards any other player or their family, including without limitation, the grandma and grandson referenced in Ms. ******* complaint. 
  
  Contrary to the accusations leveled against us, we stand fast against and deny the Consumers claims and allegations. Our organization prioritizes development over mere victories. We pour our hearts and souls into our business, striving to assist each and every player in reaching their hockey goals. Throughout our 19-year history, we have never encountered such a complaint, nor have we ever been verbally abused, physically threatened or treated this way by a players family in our program. This deeply troubles us.  Unfortunately, **************** and her husband have embarked on a mission to tarnish and destroy our reputation, a fact that saddens us.  We wish they had taken the time to truly understand us instead of solely pursing victory.  Our proven track record is the foundation of our success, and our players and their families consistently choose to return year after year.
  
  The reason no refund is due: the Consumer and her Husbands actions repeatedly violated 5 Hole Hockeys polices #4, & ** and ** as well as our Code of Conduct. Additionally,their **** behavior violated our Code of Conduct. Throughout ****************** and her familys time with our organization we repeatedly made efforts to keep their son involved with us in a positive way despite the abusive and threatening behavior of ****************** husband that violated numerous 5 Hole Hockey polices and our code of conduct.
  
  A copy of the 5 Hole Hockey Policies is attached. Additionally, when families register their player for our program, they agree to our policies and our Code of Conduct as part of the registration. The attached documents show **************** acknowledged and agreed to our Policies and Code of Conduct.
  
  We trust that this confirms that the Consumers complaint is without merit and that no refund is due to the Consumer. 
  
                                                                    Very truly yours,
  
  
                                                                    5 Hole Hockey
  
  Attachments: 5 Hole Hockey Policies; 5 Hole Hockey Code of Conduct; Consumers Registration
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/07/2024

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined the response would not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below. 
  

  **** Homes at Five Hole Hockey continues to make false claims about my family and continues to create a false narrative to cover himself (contract)! **** nor his wife, ***** have acted in good faith or tried to do what they could to resolve this issue. Hence why I have contacted the BBB and created a poor ****** review regarding Five Hole Hockey! They just ignored us!

  For the record, we were unhappy their program, coaching,and team. They made misleading claims about their program and provided deceptive advertising! We informed them after the second tournament game on Saturday that we were pulling **** from their program because we were not satisfied. They did nothing to try to resolve the matter, just told us to look at the contract and we were not getting any money back! Five Hole did not kick **** off the Team for his or his father's behavior! That is a fact! 

  They also did this to another family we know, single grandmother ************************* and her grandson ********. After watching the Tournament on Live Barn ************************* pulled *********************** from the Five Hole program. She paid $1,320.00, ******** did not attend one thing Five Hole and they only refunded her $180 because the tournament was not AAA. I understand overhead expenses but that seems to be unfair. 

  I have attached a letter of my response to Five Hole. 

  I know they are not going to give us a dime back so you can close the case after you provide them with my response. If they were going to, they would have done that by now. I just want Hockey Families to be aware. 

  Regards,
  
  ***********************