Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:09/15/2023

  Type:Product Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I contracted him to install a water faucet in front of my house.  My house is fully equipped with copper but he installed a  Pex line.  This line is 50 percent smaller than a copper.  My water pressure runs between 45 and 60 psi that reduces the flow So I had to pay him 390 dollars with the understanding he would correct the issue. However he wanted 635 dollars to change it. So I priced the copper and it is about the same price so I returned all of his materials and installed the copper myself.  I have a text indicating he admitting fault in how he installed the line. Now he is refusing to give a refund.  I want to be reimbursed 50 percent of the total cost for shared responsibility since I returned his materials and did the install myself. 

  on or about Sept. 29 2022 I had EEE plumbing install a water line to my
  front of the house. The house is all copper and EEE plumbing (*****)
  installed pex which is a smaller diameter that the existing copper. the
  pex is 50% smaller than 1/2 " copper and caused a flow reduction. the
  house is on well and uses a 45 to 60 Psi pressure. with the pex the the
  flow is reduced considerably. I paid the $390.00 with the understanding
  that he would install copper. I did not expect an additional $635.00. I
  priced pex and copper at lowes and found that there was not much
  difference in price. I installed copper and returned the material to
  ********************************* owner of EEE plumbing. in a text he indicated he was
  at fault for not telling me the material to be used. The material has
  been returned and i am requesting 50% refund for shared responsibility.
  this is for complaint #********

  Business Response

  Date: 10/05/2023

  I, *********************************, owner of EEE Plumbing met with ****************** on Saturday, September 17, 2022 to look at two plumbing projects that ****************** had in mind to do at his residence.  At our appointment, it was never discussed which type of materials or pipe size were to be installed.

  On Thursday, September 29th, 2023, I sent *****, our journeyman plumber with 18+ years experience to the ******* residence to complete one out of the two projects that ****************** requested.  At *****'s arrival, ****************** expressed his concern or issue with the pipe size and materials that we brought to his residence.  It is my understanding that the installer explained to ****************** why we use this type of material and pipe size.  ****************** approved and stood back and watched ***** install and complete the task.   At no time did ****************** tell my installer to stop and that he didn't want that size of materials.

  The project was to install a frost free wall hydrant on the brick column between his two garage doors on the front face of his home, install the pipe exposed to the inside of his garage wall and ceiling to the nearest by existing water pipe, and tie the new pipe together.  We installed 1/2" pex pipe because it is the water piping product being used in today's domestic water installations and has been the preferred product the past 16 years+.  Pex pipe is flexible and will expand for freezing in unconditional spaces unlike copper which can burst.  This is why we used pex pipe since ********************** garage is not heated.

  We installed 1/2" pipe size because the *** (gallons per minute) is what will provide enough flow to a standard residential frost free hose bib.  This is the application/installation that we have been doing in residential applications in the *********** area for the last 16+ years.

  ****************** contacted me approximately two weeks after installation was complete.  ****************** asked why we didn't install copper pipe to match his existing pipe system and asked if I could quote it in 3/4" copper pipe because he would like more gallons per minute for his hydrant.  I told him for more flow the hydrant would need to be replaced to a 3/4" commercial style hydrant and we could install it with 3/4" L copper for the cost of $635.00.  He was not interested for us to upsize the pipe and replace the copper.  His reply was "that is too much money, I can do it myself in 1/2" copper."

  Around the week of January 15, 2023, a family member of ****************** brought us the pipe, fittings, and frost free hose bib that were installed at his residence.  The pipe is cut up to the application of ********************** project and the fittings are one time fit, so these used items cannot be reinstalled and are of no use to us.  The hangers and screws to secure the pipe were not returned, however the frost free hydrant was returned in good condition and can be resold for another project, therefore, I am willing to reimburse the $26.00 for the frost free hydrant.

  All this considered, I would like to make you aware that ********************** residence is on a well water supply.  That means that the water is provided by a pump with a pressure switch that controls the water pressure in the residence.  Pressure switches have a 20 psi variance between it's on and off position.  For example, when water usage drops to 40 psi the pressure switch will activate the pump and bring the water pressure to 60 psi.  At 60 psi the well pump will shut off and not engage until the water pressure inside the house drops back down to 40 psi so there will always be a water stream difference with a property on a well service.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/07/2023

  Complaint: 20611293
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I will send documentation and response by mail
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************************

  Business Response

  Date: 10/09/2023

  To: Better Business Bureau
  Re: Complaint No. 20611293
  
  I, *********************************, owner of EEE Plumbing met with ****************** on Saturday September 17, 2022 to look at two plumbing projects that ****************** had in mind to do at his residence. At our appointment, it was never discussed which type of materials or pipe size were to be installed. 
  On Thursday September 29th, 2022, I sent *****, our journeyman plumber with 18+ years experience to the ******* residence to complete one out of the two projects that ****************** requested. At Chriss arrival, ****************** expressed his concern or issue with the pipe size and materials that we brought to his residence. It is my understanding that the installer explained to ****************** why we use this type of material and pipe size. ****************** approved and stood back and watched ***** install and complete the task. At no time did ****************** tell my installer to stop and that he didnt want that size of materials. 
  The project was to install a frost free wall hydrant on the brick column between his two garage doors on the front face of his home, install the pipe exposed to the inside of his garage wall and ceiling to the nearest by existing water pipe, and tie the new pipe together. We installed 1/2 pex pipe because it is the water piping product being used in todays domestic water installations and has been the preferred product the past 16 years+. Pex pipe is flexible and will expand for freezing in unconditioned spaces unlike copper which can burst. This is why we used pex pipe since Mr. ******** garage is not heated. 
  We installed 1/2 pipe size because the *** (gallons per minute) is what will provide enough flow to a standard residential frost free hose bib. This is the application/installation that we have been doing in residential applications in the *********** area for the last 16+ years.
  ****************** contacted me approximately two weeks after installation was complete. ****************** asked why we didnt install copper pipe to match his existing pipe system and asked if I could quote it in 3/4 copper pipe because he would like more gallons per minute for his hydrant. I told him for more flow the hydrant would need to be replaced to a 3/4 commercial style hydrant and we could install it with 3/4 L copper for the cost of $635.00. He was not interested for us to upsize the pipe and replace to copper. His reply was that is too much money, I can do it myself in 1/2 copper.  
  Around the week of January 15, 2023 a family member of ****************** brought us the pipe, fittings, and frost free hose bib that were installed at his residence. The pipe is cut up to the application of Mr. ******** project and the fittings are one time fit, so these used items cannot be reinstalled and are of no use to us. The hangers and screws to secure the pipe were not returned, however the frost free hydrant was returned in good condition and can be resold for another project, therefore, I am willing to reimburse the $26.00 for the frost free hydrant.
  All this considered, I would like to make you aware that Mr. ******** residence is on a well water supply. That means that the water is provided by a pump with a pressure switch that controls the water pressure in the residence. Pressure switches have a 20 psi variance between its on and off position. For example, when water usage drops to 40 psi the pressure switch will activate the pump and bring the water pressure to 60 psi. At 60 psi the well pump will shut off and not engage until the water pressure inside the house drops back down to 40 psi so there will always be a water stream difference with a property on a well service. 
  Thanks, *********************************
  EEE Plumbing ************

  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/10/2023

  Complaint: 20611293
  
  I am rejecting this response because:

   

  I am rejecting the offer because

  
  1. the conservations at the time of installation by ***** and my self. ***** had already made a connection of a copper reducing fitting

  before bringing out the 1/2 inch pex. I told him that this is not going to work due to the inner size of the pex vs 1/2 copper. He said that this is what if going in all homes and it will work, we also talked about his experience being commercial and he had been employed by EEE for a short time in residential. he said that they did have all the copper crimping tools and made the connection of the copper reducer by crimping  He has denied any conservation as i don't remember according to *********************************, and since the connection had been made we would have been without water had he been told to stop, and since he told me that the flow would be fine I had him proceed in order to determine the flow was sufficient. any competent plumber would know that the smaller the line the less the flow.

  
  2. ******* was notified 2 business days following the installation by text (which is on file) not two weeks. he was told as was ***** that the flow was not acceptable since the rear of the house is !/2 inch pipe. The difference in flow was verified by several people.

  
  3.At the time of viewing what was to be done on Sept.17, it was mentioned that I did not want the line run against the wall to avoid freezing, this was a opportune time for ******* to tell me that the pex could be laid against the wall, so he knew I was expecting copper.

  
  4. *******'s response that my garage is not heated is not right. The garage is heated and cooled as any other room in my house due to paint storage and where at night our pet is kept at night.

  
  5. Had copper been installed there would have been no question on the bill, but since he wanted another $635.00 to install the copper this would have been double billing and price gouging.

  
  6. I have test documentation that he stated "maybe I am to blame for not specify pipe size and material type that is being used in today's plumbing". I would to add that copper is available and is still being used in home building. It's the consumers choice.

  
  7. after being assured that copper could be installed on Monday October 3, 2022 I mailed a check for $390.00 . check No. 2144. but after getting the $635.00 quote I installed Copper with shark bite fittings for considerably less around $200.00

  
  8. Therefore I am only asking for 50% refund. Should this go on to small claims court I will request full reimbursement. ********************************

  
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************************

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/14/2023

  I believe there may be a bbb message that I may have a mistakenly deleted. please resend if this is the case

  complaint 20611293

  thank you, 

  ************************************