Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/05/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  i brought my truck there because the check engine light was on they looked at it said it was cylinder 5 misfire had to take of valve cover to look at lifters said they were bad have to replace them took all apart put in new parts put in back together still check engine light on they said cant fixit the bill 2000 plus already paid 500 for parts they told me it was camshaft so i paid the balance i brought it to another shop was told they could have put in new camshaft when they had it all a part gta did not tell me that so now it has to takin all apart again it is a 2011 pickup with 101kmiles on i do not want to just throw it away thank you ****

  Business Response

  Date: 06/09/2023

  **** was a first-time
  customer with no history for us to reference maintenance history though-out the
  life of truck. He initially stated that he had tried replacing various
  components at other shops, like spark plugs and a coil with no effect on the
  drivability of the truck. He brought his truck to us on 11/23/2022 to diagnose
  the misfire. (note* customer stated that the misfire was ongoing for some
  months, i believe he said 6) When it arrived there was a very significant
  misfire observed both at idle and cruising speeds. Understanding the common
  failure points of these engines our initial diagnosis required removal of the
  valve cover gasket to inspect the rocker arms for movement during engine
  rotation. during that inspection, it was observed that there was no
  articulation of the rocker arm on cylinder number 5. This can be caused for 3
  reasons;
  1. A failed lifter (most
  common failure)
  This component sits on the
  camshaft and moves up and down based on the camshaft lobe position. It
  transfers that up and down motion to a pushrod which then articulates the
  rocker arm that opens each corresponding valve. this is what was visually
  inspected during initial diagnosis. no movement was observed. it should be
  noted that this particular engine will shut down 4 cylinders under certain
  driving conditions as a fuel management system. the computer will energize 4 of
  the MDS solenoids that allow the lifters to stay COLLAPSED, meaning no
  articulation of the rocker arms.  What
  happens to these lifters (which we see similarly on chevy trucks which utilize
  a similar fuel management strategy) is that over time and generally, but not
  limited to, poor maintenance schedules, these lifters can become stuck in the
  collapsed position and not allow camshaft lobe rotation to be transferred to
  the rocker arm. 
  2. A worn camshaft (second
  most common failure)
  this is only accomplished by
  removing the cylinder head to visually inspect for signs of overheating,
  scoring, or other general wear symptoms. No such conditions were observed after
  disassembly. The camshaft was clean and smooth on the lobes and had no signs of
  wear which suggested that the sole fault was within the lifter assembly. 
  3. A stuck MDS solenoid. (Least
  common failure) 
  the solenoid which provides
  oil to corresponding lifter to deactivate. 
  This was tested using a
  diagnostic tool which manually engages the solenoid which we can verify
  operation via audible clicking, listened to via a stethoscope. The solenoid was
  indeed operating at the time of diagnosis. 
  After the diagnosis it was
  communicated to **** the findings. A failed lifter, necessitating the need for
  replacement along with the corresponding gaskets, hardware and typical fluids.
  **** agreed to the repair and we proceeded with the job. 
  Upon completion of the job
  and verification of the repair’s success, there was a slight misfire still
  present which was unacceptable and necessitated the disassembly of the valve
  cover to inspect for integrity of repaired components. we wanted to make sure
  the rocker arm was still moving with camshaft rotation. proper operation of
  replaced component was verified. Rocker arm was articulating, unlike how the
  truck arrived initially. At this time, we reassembled the valve cover and began
  further diagnostics at no additional cost to the customer to attempt to
  understand what was causing this much less significant misfire. Further testing
  confirmed that there was good compression, good spark, and good fuel supply. Unfortunately,
  this left a mechanical fault, which was ultimately traced to the camshaft lobe
  which must have worn down from prolonged engine operation with a collapsed
  lifter. (Lifter was no longer rolling on camshaft lobe, but bouncing on the
  lobe due to low resistance from being collapsed) 
  As a good faith attempt at
  ruling out low chance possibilities, we removed the intake manifold and
  replaced the MDS solenoid to eliminate the possibility of a leaking solenoid
  causing partial lifter deactivation. This was replaced with no labor charge and
  the part at cost. This had no effect on performance. 
  At this time, we communicated
  with **** about the situation and he seemed to accept the reality that there
  was deeper damage than previously thought. We informed him that camshaft
  replacement is generally beyond the scope of the type of repairs we do in this
  shop, and referred him elsewhere for full engine rebuilding.  He picked up
  the truck on 1/24/2023.  With no further
  communication until April 2023.
  ----------3 months later and
  Customer interaction via text------
  ******, **** • 4/20/2023 9:44:04 AM
   “yes i would like to get
  my truck fixed  mike took it all apart
  said the camshaft dont go bad  so it was
  torn  down was already close to the
  camshaft should have been changed not just give me your money go away ok get
  it!!”
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  While this is true that it would make sense to do the camshaft
  while the engine is apart, there are two problems with this line of thought.
  First, it assumes that we knew at the time of disassembly that the camshaft was
  bad, and it also assumes that the engine was disassembled to the point of easy
  camshaft replacement.  This is not the
  case. the charge to remove the one cylinder head was 8 hours. To replace the
  camshaft is 14 hours of labor based on the labor guide as it requires the
  removal of the other cylinder head as well as the oil pan and timing cover.
  Much more work than just doing as a natural course of action as suggested by
  the customers text message.
  As a general point of reflection with a 30k foot view of the
  whole situation, we understand the customers frustration with not having the
  result they thought they would have. We ALSO feel a level of frustration of not
  meeting the expectations of a customer. We exist to provide a service that
  people will want to tell their friends and families about. We pride ourselves
  on integrity, honesty and expediency. Although the result was not ideal in the
  case of ****s truck, we only operated in good faith, evidenced by our price
  modification of the final bill. We discounted the parts pricing down from their
  regular markup in an effort to soften the hit of an undesirable outcome. There
  is unfortunately no further remedy that which we can provide to make this
  situation better for ****. We cannot get into rebuilding an engine, as it is
  not within our abilities to devote such time to a variable heavy (could find
  out the timing chains are stretched, or that the camshaft bearings need to be
  replaced which would require engine removal) process, while still continuing to
  service our other customers’ needs of prompt, quality service.
  Attached is a copy of the text conversation from 4/19/2023 that
  **** initiated.
  Feel free to contact us for further details or questions.
  ###-###-####.