Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:11/01/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  The extent of this project's issues/mismanagement has been nothing short of appalling. The project initiated 9-26. It has now been 38 days without a functioning shower, due to a series of issues that shouldn't have occurred in the 1st place. 1st red flag was discovery that the initial product used for the shower floor tile adherence was defective. Thanks to the defect, I reviewed security camera footage that captured the product in question & confirmed that it was not suitable for shower floors. This information was clearly stated on the product's website, which I promptly brought to their attention. After insisting the appropriate mortar for shower floors, the project continued, but new issues arose. Tile installation was uneven, leaving low spots on floor. Worse still, mortar was carelessly spread all over our hardwoods, staircase, wall tiles, bathroom wall and sink (hardened). L*** of communication from the company was astounding. Took days of relentless calls/emails to get a supervisor to actually visit. Mortar remained on the tile; the cleaning process even chipped paint & drywall, adding to the list of repairs. The breaking point was when, after the grouting/sealing, our shower floor did not drain at all, leaving 2" of standing water. I discovered that the drain pipe was obstructed with remnants of the wrong product used during the initial stage as well as mesh netting/grout & pieces of the old tile; suggesting an incredible level of incompetence or, worse, intentional misconduct. My myriad # attempts to contact the company went unanswered, their l*** of response has been unacceptable. At this point, I have lost ALL confidence in the company's ability to correct the situation. I have engaged a trusted plumber to address the plumbing issues created by the company. I will have to hire a competent contractor to remove the botched installation and redo it correctly, therefore leading to my request of full refund. I have more issues but not enough space to write

  

  Business Response

  Date: 11/27/2023

  Response to complaint #20812949 I would like to give an updated timeline of the project and details associated, along with photos, of what  actually occurred. As a company, we value each of our clients and take every project seriously with the  utmost professionalism. We unfortunately ended up in the end having a faulty product, which we  informed the client of right away and what we would need to do to remedy it for them (with no  additional charge to them). The other issues we were having was water puddling being found on the  pan while each step of the project was being done, which inhibited the time frame and created issues  along the way. Instead of deciding to wash our hands and walking away due to the client possibly  creating/adding to the issue, we thought it was best to stick through it though a faulty product is in no  way our fault but a manufacturer issue.  -9/26: picked up the tile to deliver on site, demo-ed the existing area to prep for install. The technician  found a large hole around the entire shower drainpipe which is why they were having leaking into their  garage ceiling area. We repaired this hole around the drain pipe only.  -9/27: applied blue guard to the shower base (see photo)  -9/28: technician came b*** and blue guard was wet (see photo)- believed that the client had ran water  showing puddling on top of the blue guard. Cleaned up water and put fan on area to be left overnight.  -9/29: laid tile (see photo) Left fan on area to be left overnight  -10/2: technician stated thinset behind tile was still wet. Informed client we could not do anything and  give it a few more days to see if it dries  -10/3: client emailed that shower floor still seems wet  -10/13: client out of country (MOAT updated via email, did not know this prior) and that Father in Law  would be available for questions and access. MOAT updated client that the product seems to be faulty and we will take care of replacing everything.  -10/16: technician stated thinset it still wet. Decided to demo all tile, thinset, etc from shower area to  prep for new install. (see photos). Client updated via email.  -10/18: MOAT emailed client confirming that we taped off the shower head and handle due to noticing  water on the floor in photos from the technician when he has been on site, which should not be there.  Also informed client that he chose a 12x12 matte tile which does not need spacers.  -10/20: MOAT’s Project manager met with client in person to review concerns: thinset, dust, etc on  areas of house to be cleaned. Also 1 area of the shower floor (roughly 1’x1’) that they want to be  evened out. Noticed dog hair in shower on floor- possible that animal is walking on shower floor  causing problems. (see photos)  -10/26: Technician went b*** on site and addressed/cleaned all photos given from on site inspection  day prior from MOAT Project manager. Also removed and repaired unlevel section of base and  reinstalled and grouted to complete (see photos) -10/27: Grout completed to finish project. MOAT emailed client to inform them of completion, thank  them for their patience and remind them not to use shower until Monday to give adequate amount of  time to dry. Also reminding them of a faulty product from the beginning that had to be removed, but  that the puddles of water along the way may have also contributed to the issues. MOAT offered to have  client call with questions or let us know if Project Manager needs to stop over for final inspection.  -10/31: Client emailed stating 2” stagnant water was found on the shower floor causing the shower not  to drain possibly from thinset. MOAT sealed off shower drain for each level of the project, and plumbing  itself was NOT a part of the scope of our work- only to repair a hole found around the drain pipe (found  upon removal of old tile) and installing new shower floor tile only.   M*** of All Trades (MOAT) was hired to Remove and Replace tile in their master shower pan. Any  Plumbing and/or garage drywall repairs were not included. It is unknown how long the client’s master  shower has been leaking and has not been used, which can cause plumbing issues itself from sitting for  an extended period of time. Our company met with the client on 8/9/23 @3pm for the estimate. Our  company sent the client the estimated cost on 8/10/23, which they approved 10/4/23, & then were tentatively scheduled for the end of September. We believe that the client’s request for a refund is  unethical due to us standing by them through this process the entire time and communicating along the  way. To have them state that we did not communicate is confusing since we have proof of  communication via email the entire process, which also doesn’t include numerous phone conversations  with our office, technician on site and Project Manager as well. We do not expect the client to pay for  the faulty product removal with new material/labor that was incurred to reinstall. We believe this is a  fair and honest business decision to be a good partnership and do the right thing. We will not be  refunding the client any monies and will be seeking remainder of payment due to date - $763.00. Stated  in our invoices, there is a 1.5% finance charge for all invoices not paid within 30 days of the invoice being  sent. We officially complete the project on 10/27/23, which mean this fee will be applied starting  11/27/23 if not paid in full. We will seek a different resolution if the client does not accept this.  Thank you,  M*** of All Trades Team  ************************************

  Customer Answer

  Date: 12/04/2023

  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint. 
  
  I would like to preface my response to MOAT’s initial response by stating that I’m disheartened to have the business seemingly accuse us of faulting the project and being the cause of the issues, as well as their statement of how they are “confused by my issue with their communication.” As you will see in my itemized response points, the communication was l***luster at best considering the numerous lapses in time of days in most cases of not responding and then a complete cut off of all communication starting on November 2 nd , 25 days ago. I not once received any phone call (as promised) nor email communication from MOAT since the last communication on November 2 nd at 1639pm. I never spoke nor heard from Mike M*** since he came out for the estimate. This is just some of the communication issues that arose with MOAT. I will discuss in detail to each date entry that MOAT provided in the following response. 9/27: MOAT states that blue guard was used as product. After further review of the estimate yesterday (Nov 27 th , 2023) MOAT had written into the estimate that *********” (which I believe the actual spelling is *******) was to be utilized for the waterproofing membrane. 9/28: The accusation of us purposely causing water pooling on the new membrane is offensive. The night prior and the morning of Sept 28 th 2023 there was no water on the membrane. (I specifically have a picture of the membrane prior to the technician’s arrival for tile placement) When the technician came over, I went with him to the shower as he mentioned that water was pooled up. I literally ran my hands over both showerheads and they were as dry as the ******. There was zero moisture on the shower heads, nor handles, nor walls or glass shower door. To accuse us of running water in it, is abhorrent. 10/3: I emailed the business notifying them of the issue with wetness. I also placed a phone call to the office to speak about said issue. I spoke with ******* Sousa (asst. office manager) in regards to said faulty product. What MOAT fails to disclose to the BBB, is that they also had another project concurrently with mine, which had the exact same issue with the defective product as per *******. For MOAT to write in their response that water from us may have been the issue with the product defectiveness is humorous. I guess we must have gone to the other project site as well and turned the water on. ******* also disclosed that they were working with the store manager where the product was purchased and with the manufacturer for refund of expenses incurred by MOAT for the product and tiles. 10/13: As MOAT states in their response; they were not aware of our out-of-country status. 1). *******was notified on the phone on October 3 rd in regards to the product issue and plan moving forward since my wife and I were leaving the country on the 6 th . I provided ******* with my father-in-laws contact information including phone numbers to call him and discuss the resolution and plan moving forward since we would be out of the country. The business was made aware of our traveling status. However, it also is not my duty nor responsibility to provide a travel itinerary to MOAT, just as it is not their responsibility to provide me with an itinerary of their family plans/vacations/etc. 11 days had passed from notification to ******* and any further correspondence the week of October 9 th 2023. My father-in- law was never called or spoken to. Hence why I had to email MOAT from Europe in regards to an update. In the Oct 13 th 2023 email response to MOAT, I had asked them again to please make any plans and communication with my father-in-law and provided them with his contact information again. He was never called nor notified in any way. Unbeknownst to my in-laws, who were house sitting, the technician just showed up that Monday morning with no notification from anyone. We had zero communication from the 13 th until after the technician arrived on the 16 th . 10/18: Kelsey M*** refers to a picture of wet tiles. That picture was one that I sent her to show her the spacing of the tiles in a complete other house on the project they completed a couple months ago at my friend’s shower. Below that picture in my original email it clearly states that this picture is from (Name left out for privacy) (his) shower not mine. MOAT also states; “12x12 matte tile which does not need spacers.” However, I had included pictures of my friend’s install process, who had the exact same joband exact same 12x12 matte tiles (besides the color) installed by MOAT a couple months prior to our job. The pictures clearly show spacers being utilized during the install. 10/20: MOAT’s project manager only met because we had to persistently call to see where he was. Original apt was for 1130am, which I had taken off from work and switched my entire schedule and colleague’s schedule so I could be home for the appointment. He never showed at 1130am. We gave it a couple more hours still with no show and had to call the office twice until we got an answer. It was only then that he called us ****. On that phone call, he stated he “had no idea of an 1130am appointment.” Regardless, he came over and was professional in his manner and understanding. MOAT also accuses us for dog hair in the shower and refers to pictures. Unfortunately half the pictures that they presented to BBB look as if they came from a ***** flip phone from 1999. There is zero concrete evidence of dog hair in the shower. On top of this, we have had the dogs for 10 years in that house and not a single one has ever been allowed in that shower, matter of fact, they all are absolutely terrified from the shower. Knowing animal physiology, it is scientific fact that mammals such as dogs, shed their coats throughout the year, which causes homeowners to have dog hair throughout the house on the floors, carpets, etc. (even with constant cleaning). Every time the technician came into the house, he would have to walk from the entrance, up the stairs, through the hallways, into the master bedroom and into the master bath. It is most definitely possible that he could have ******* dog hair on the bottom of his shoes into the shower area while working. Please refer to picture; ***************************************************** which clearly shows the technician standing in the shower with his boots on. Again, accusing a dog of being in the shower and causing the floor issues is a laughable offense. We had the same unevenness issue with the first set of tile that was laid, yet, there was no mention of dog hair then. The shower was guarded better than a federal maxsecurity prison. 10/31: MOAT states they sealed off the shower drain for each level of the project. However, the pictures MOAT provided the BBB with in their response, clearly show that the drain pipe was not sealed in ANY phase of the project. Please refer to picture; *****************************************************, which was taken during the actual removal of the tile and subsequent defective product that never set, the same product that was taken out of the drain pipe weighing 12oz. One can clearly see that the drain pipe was not sealed in any way. Please also refer to picture;  ***************************************************** which shows the drain pipe not sealed with the membrane application. There are multiple pictures that show the drain tile not sealed. Does MOAT have any photographic evidence of the drain pipe sealed? I called and left a voicemail at 0709am on October 30 th to notify the office of the issue with the standing water and shower not draining. I requested on the voicemail the need for the supervisor and or Mike M*** himself to call me immediately when they open. The only person who called **** was *******, who stated that “one of the ****’s would be calling us b*** for sure.” We heard nothing from them the remainder of the day. I called again the next day and no response. My wife called later that afternoon on the 31 st of October and ******* stated to my wife; “that she told the ****’s and that theydefinitely were going to be calling us that evening if not the first thing in the morning.” Once again nobody called. We finally received an email correspondence from Kelsey on Nov 2 nd at 1639pm (4 full days after our initial contact for the standing water issue) stating; “I have had a family emergency the last 2 days and will be at the office tomorrow. Just seeing your email and I will call to follow up with you myself by phone to discuss the email sent on Tuesday. Look forward to speaking with you. Thank you for understanding.” I understand that family emergencies/issues happen and I not once questioned that nor brought it up. However, they still were operational in their business and also still had their Asst. Office manager working whom could have had the project supervisor notified and come out. They never did. Also, based on Kelsey’s timeline, their family emergency was the last 2 days, so it still does NOT explain their zero communication from the 30 th and 31 st , 2 full days since the drain issue. Lastly, MOAT also responds by stating; “it is unknown how long the client’s master shower has been leaking and has not been used, which can cause plumbing issues itself from sitting for an extended period of time.” Our shower was used every day, 2-3 times a day up until the very night before they began work. Not once in 10 years until the 30 th of October have we had a drain issue with clogging, etc. Not once! Unfortunately, MOAT doesn’t address at all the fact that 12 oz. of the following material was removed from the drain pipe; 1). Old pieces of the ***** pebble tile floor we had originally that were chipped and broken off from demolition 2). A huge amount of the defective thinset (as it never cured/hardened thankfully) 3). Mesh ******* from the new 12x12 tile 4). “*********” chunks of membrane 5). Grout that matched the new grout color perfectly that they installed. All material has been saved in a ****** bag and removal process was video documented. 12 oz. of material does not just fall into the drain pipe if it is sealed off completely and correctly as MOAT states was done at all phases of project. This solely falls on the technician and poor workmanship and hopefully not maliciousness. In summary, I had not once received any phone call nor email communication from MOAT since the last communication on November 2 nd , 2023. I never spoke nor heard from Mike M*** since he came out for the estimate. Due to the ongoing dispute of services and zero communication from the company payment had been withheld, awaiting communication from MOAT or through the BBB case report. MOAT wants to talk about ethics, however, they officially didn’t respond to the BBB until the 27 th of November, 25 days after the initial case filing and contact to the business by BBB. Which conveniently led to 30 days from “completion” of project, in which, if payment is not received by 30 days, a finance charge will begin to be accessed. Full payment for the stated remaining payment was made by us on November 27 th to avoid any finance charges, etc. We will swallow this as a loss to us, but rest assured, we do not agree with their decisions nor their accusations. Even though payment has been finalized and made, and the invoice is now paid in full and closed, after discussing with the BBB the situation, we will be rejecting MOAT’s response, so that we can officially place our rebuttal response to them on the casefile. With our Paid in Full status, we unequivocally declare the cessation of any future relationship with MOAT, deeming this decision final and absolute as we have no intention of establishing any further relationship with said entity. 
  
  Regards,
  
  ****** *********