Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:09/26/2024

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Description:
  Consumer purchased car parts and brought them to for them to install them in his car. At the end they
  increase the amount that is owed to install the parts. $3500 turned into a $13000 bill due to late fees.
  They were unwilling to waive these fees.
  No Atty

  Business Response

  Date: 10/03/2024

  I tried sending 7 message files but they were tool large how and i go about sending them so you will be able to receive?

  Business Response

  Date: 10/03/2024

  Please let me know how i can send more info and documents,  I am loading up trucks tonight and headed to NC to aid with the hurricane relief so i would like to get all the info over asap today as I will be tied up. 

  This is a *** Concern for me as I deeply care about my customer and My company -

  Regards 

  ***** ******  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/07/2024

  [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 
  
  
  
  Complaint: 22343038
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because:  The shop hasn't resolved my issue.

  I have documented my experience with the shop and have prepared a google drive folder that has a complete timeline of events, screen shots of communication through messenger and email, photos and videos that include issues with the work performed and mistreatment of the vehicle. The shop has overcharged for labor and parts beyond the quoted amount without making me aware of the increase in cost and added labor rates associated. Below is the link to the google drive folder that contains everything discussed. I ask that you give me an email address to approve for access to this google drive to further review.

  ****************
  
  
  
  Regards,
  
  
  
  ******* *********

  Business Response

  Date: 10/08/2024

  
  ***** *** D ****** <************************>
  3:47 PM (10 minutes ago)
  to me
  
  Hello,  ***** ****** here from Empire Tech ohio LLC , I just forwarded you all of our email communications . As you can clearly see we have tried to Take care of any matter, With the customer having  major Delays in responses to Us, I also have every text and FB message for our communications - Empires Policy is to also Video record and take pictures of the entire build process and when the vehicle was dropped off . We have all of those documents - Every single Part that was billed out on the Invoice was Installed with documentation . I had so many texts  and messages talking with the customer during the whole time his car was here. I have taken responsibility many times as it clearly shows to Make up with my failure in communications . I had already Knocked off  thousands of dollars before the final Invoice was charged . Money knocked off that I paid my employees to do Money that Empire paid for parts all knocked off. If my company is as bad as this customer is making us out to be , Why didn't he pick his car up ? Why didn't he stop the build ? Why weren't things stopped after he came here to check progress ? Which is clearly posted that Audio and Video recording on premises - All logged - Also all his communications whith **** and **** are all logged - He Was constantly updated on New issues with the cars and progress, And told it would all cost more money many times. Yet He still wanted to continue with the work-  With the Customers many many documented visits to the Shop which are all documented and video recorded , The customer closely examined our work and progress during each visit . I did fail at Constantly giving updates on the total amount , Which I have knocked off thousands off the Final bill, But I will not allow someone to Make up stories that they were forced to pay , Or they just got randomly hit with a massive bill. This customer brought us a vehicle that he bought just weeks prior to bringing to us, HE bought it off his friend who won it on a online raffle, As we told the previous owner and Then Donnovan- This car was completely Rushed together and not built correctly prior to coming to empire - Ita 1991 Nissan ******* that's seen a lot of previous hand touch it. Then the customers Emails and responses stopped after a 2.5 hr recorded phone call . I then saw in my Email last week that he Filed a claim against Us, Then three days later sends a *** Email Which mainly Says he wants Money back . But did not talk with us for weeks . Now he's asking for 13k Really?   I have so much more documents I can send to Show the Truth ! I built this Company from nothing and My customers and Reputation and Quality of work Is all we care about . Why didn't He bring the car back after the Many times I asked ? I clearly have shown that We were willing to help In any way Possible. Why would I help now ? This is Sad and I Have Owned up for our wrong and have done everything Possible while being polite to solve this, But I've come to Terms that He wants a free car - Extortion is what that sounds like to me - Please if you want more Information or pictures I have hundreds   - Thankyou  - ***** ****** - Empire Tech Ohio LLC -###-###-#### 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/09/2024

  [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 
  
  
  
  Complaint: 22343038
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: This response isn't in regards to my issue, they're responding with a technical issue with the system on their end. I've presented them with everything outlined in my files shared, I've also come across more issues with my vehicle that I've emailed them about and I haven't received a response. 
  
  
  
  Regards,
  
  
  
  ******* *********

  Business Response

  Date: 10/09/2024

  Hello, BB and ******* - So after Many of these messages I will lay out Undeniable facts , Empire Tech Has Not Ever had One complaint except from a Person on Google 5 years ago who was never even a customer of ours- We have had Many issues along the Way and have always done everything to solve them Which in a lot of cases We were not in the wrong but still went above and beyond to help the customer who had a issues. As a small business Owner who built this company from nothing My Customer satisfaction and Quality of work is our core value - Their is not one person you will ever find that We did not try our best to Solve their Issue if they had one with us ! That's a FACT ! 

  1. ETO did Have Money communication issues with ******* - This was ETOs fault- After many many calls, and Emails that have been all documented and Sent in - It Clearly shows ETO taking reasonability to this - ETO knocked off A lot of Money from  that final bill we have - ETO has tired in many ways to furthermore Make up for this issues on our end - With no Clear answer from ******* - This is all clearly documented , As things clearly show in the emails - We have tirelessly tired to communicate with ******* with lack on his end and no clear Responses from him besides more Issues he keeps coming up with- He had been the one to Take lengthy Amounts of time for responses   - FACT! . A bill  was presented initially to ******* on July 5-2024 - ******* came in person to the shop and sat with me and we went over the Entire Itemized invoice. FACT  ! He was also given In hand a print out of this - FACT ! ,  

  2. The whole time the vehicle was here - ******* was sent Texts, FB messages , Phone calls with Myself ***** - All Documented - Also all the same with **** , **** both Employees here at ETO - ******* also had over 10 visits or More over the Course of his car being Here - All documented - FACTS ! - With security cam footage of Lengthy Inspections preformed by ******* - Inspecting his car each time He visited as well as Lengthy conversations with Myself, Z roc and **** - With 4 Plus other Witnesses combined during his visits here at ETO with no issues or complaints from him during all this visits - FACT !
  

  3. In one of *******s Responses to this Tread of BBB messages he States, Labor per hr. was over charged from the Initial quote per Hr.-  False !  - His Documented Initial ESTIMATE - shows a hourly labor rate of $125.00 per hr. , ETO charged on the Final bill of 82.1 hrs. at $115.00 per hr. - FACTS ! 
  

  4. Prior to July 5th 2024 *******s last Documented payment to ETO was on 2-22-24  ??? Yet ETO still continued to work on his vehicle , Spending labor and Money on parts - FACTS ! While ******* was talked with in all forums of Communications listed above with All three Employees - With visits to ETO - FACTS- All documented - With ETO even trailering his car up to A car show - with his approval - He saw his car in person and Saw the work with many more inspections from his friends and other People - FACTS !  Why didn't he have a issue at this time ??
  

  5. With many more Parts needed to be bought and installed as we dug Deeper into this PROJECT- And yes this was a completely thrown together car that was passed from one person to another from a online raffle - With collectively over 100 pictures ETO has and so many videos of vehicle when it initially came in and during the build to show how bad of shape the vehicle was in due to being thrown together for the raffle sale online - FACTS !  When he was asked many times how much he paid for the car - He would get irritated - Because of all the stuff we kept fining wrong with it - He Completely overpaid for the car initially - FACTS !  So as the build went on and he knew he would have to spend a lot more money than he initially thought - YET he had ETO continue with the build , Even after he came so many time and was constantly updated on the new issues as they arrived, While picking up old parts as we took them off the car - FACTS-  - Why didn't he stop the build ? Why didn't he have issues - Yet a common Documented response from Him - IT IS WHAT IT IS - FACTS -  
  

  6. Response to his Accusation of ETO charging him a late fee ?  Where at all Documented is a late fee charged ? - The only mention of a late fee was from ETO in a documented Email stating a late fee would be imposed if the Customer did not Pay infill by 9-6-24 , This was stated - in response to the Documented last payment amount from ******* on 2-22-24 - So ETO continued to work for Free from 2-23-24 to 8-30-24 when vehicle was picked up and paid in full - With no late fee imposed - Another reason we stated a late fee would be imposed 9-6-24 , ******* was told the first Initial Final Bill on July 5th , He made no effort to pay ETO any money at all - FACT , Yet ETO still worked up to 8-29-24 on the vehicle - ******* had 56 days to come up with the final payment or come up with a payment plan he did not even come up with a payment plan  , The End final bill that was told to ******* on 8-29-24 was thousands less than what he was told on july -5-24 - FACT - ETO took of this money as our way of making up for our communication issues and other thing we Lacked on - FACT 
  

  7. ******* does have snapchat video of his Car being driven - As documented in my reply emails - That was me , As with all vehicles  that come to ETO - on our waiver sheet they are to be driven and tested , Especially ones after extensive modifications - I did not abuse his vehicle - I do not do that - After the thousands of vehicle I've test drove in my small community - Not one complaint of Anyone from ETO abusing a customer vehicles - ******* stated his concerns of this and I sent many responses with Apology  that he thought his car was being abused - It was not - But i was still willing to make up for this - Which is documented - FACTS- 
  

  8. ******* tired to Sue another shop that he had his other car worked on - And lost 10k trying to sue them ,- In a documented message from him, Now he is asking for 13k from ETO ?? This seems to be a pattern- I do not know the whole story because I don't have facts , But now with his continued complaints for everything but Unwilling to Talk on the Phone except for one recorded phone call from  Sept 13th - He has not brought the car back nothing ? Keeps coming up with issues but Only thing he Keeps asking for is a ridiculous amount of money ?? Sounds like extortion - This is after our recorded phone call on sept 13th him stating many times , when asked how much money do you think you are owed - He stated I don't even want a tenth of the labor back and continued to throw out other percentages - FACT ! - With no more communication from ******* after our Sept 13th phone call , Because he ended the convo with he wanted to think about things and come up with a plan for us to fix stuff and get some money back , He then bypasses a complete open channel of communication with ETO and files with the BBB on on Sept 26th , Then ******* sends a email to ETO on OCT 2nd- ETO has not responded to this as He escalated the situation to the BBB status . FACT 
  

  9. Why didn't ******* stop the build and pick his car up ? Why has he not Brought the car back to address issues? Why has he not accepted all of our responses ? Why did he tell his friend Robert Canter about this whole situation, who has now let other people know- That is hurting the integrity of ETO? Why did he lose  trying to Sue another shop  for a large amount of money ? Why is he stating that he was charged late fee that were never imposed- with facts from our end ? Why was He not willing to have ETO solve any issues , With ETO clearly trying to resolve the Issue? Why Did he go from a phone call stating he didn't want much Money to Now asking for 13k? Why is he trying to Add preexisting issues on his car prior to ETO as ETOS fault, when we have full documentation of the status of the vehicle when it came in and through the entire build and to it leaving? Why is it ETOS fault that ******* has decided to have a wedding While trying to afford a car build - I only bring this up because during the end of the time the vehicle was here Documented times ******* stating he doesn't know how he can afford to pay for both??? With he bringing  that up multiple  times Prior to receiving that Bill on July 5th??? 

  I have nothing to hide and will Atone to any mistakes made by myself or ETO , I have shown nothing to state otherwise - I was willing to Fix anything that was proven ETO messed up for free, I was willing to Give ******* money back , I was willing to go above and beyond Because I care about my customers and I care about This company Myself and others have built . I have shown nothing to contradict this .   It is easy to see the massive time delays in *******'s responses and Lack of talking on the phone or Not even once coming back to ETO to discuss . I am a very very reasonable person . 

  I will not be blamed for issues that are not our fault I will not be extorted. ******* I know you will be able to read this response , Its sad that you took it to this level , when I clearly was willing to do what ever to a reasonable solution . All three of us here who busted our behinds on your car are all sad from how you have handled this matter as time has gone on- I hope you Become the reasonable Man I know you inside . I am Still willing to Work with You, But to a reasonable extent -   

  With Much respect

  ***** ****** - Empire tech Ohio 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/21/2024

  I am submitting a formal request for restitution regarding the work conducted by Empire Tech Ohio (ETO) on my vehicle over the past 11 months. I have identified several issues involving overcharges, communication failures, and overlooked safety and quality concerns. Additionally a video documented incident that may have resulted in potential damage to the engine and transmission. Below is a breakdown of the restitution I am seeking:

  
  

  1. Total Paid Minus Parts Supplied:

  
  

  Total paid to ETO (excluding parts provided by me): $19,560.09

  (This is the amount paid to ETO after deducting the initial $5,985.05 worth of parts that I personally supplied.)

  
  

  
  

  2. Initial Agreed Quote vs. Adjusted Total Paid:

  
  

  Initial agreed quote for labor and parts I personally supplied: $11,040.23

  
  

  Overcharge: $8,519.86

  
  

  
  

  3. Additional Restitution for Unibody Frame Damage and Incomplete Work:

  
  

  Estimated unibody frame repair and miscellaneous parts/labor to fix issues: $2,000

  
  

  
  

  4. Neglect and Vehicle Mistreatment:

  
  

  There is evidence of neglect and mishandling of my vehicle, including a video of it being joyridden, resulting in potential damage of transmission components and the integrity of the engine. This, combined with the poor communication and oversight in providing timely updates on the escalating costs, has left me in a financially precarious position with additional repairs needed to ensure the safety and functionality of the vehicle.

  
  

  5. Total Restitution Requested:

  
  

  $8,519.86 (overcharge)

  
  

  $2,000 (frame damage repair and unfinished work)

  
  

  Total requested restitution: $10,519.86

  
  

  
  

  This request is based on ETO's failure to communicate the true cost of the build throughout the process and the neglectful handling of my vehicle, leading to the financial and mechanical burden now facing me. I am submitting this to the BBB and ETO for mediation in order to seek a fair and reasonable resolution.

  
  

  Sincerely,

  ******* *********

  Business Response

  Date: 10/29/2024

  Hello BBB and ******* - This will be our Final response from Empire Tech Ohio LLC , After a lot of back and forth messages, in which I have felt nothing has been accomplished, I have come to the conclusion that ******* wants nothing more than money and to have free work and free parts.  I have re- read over all of his messages, since his initial complaint to the BBB in which there is a lot of changes in his story and complaints.

   

   I, ***** ******, am a person that will always make up for any mistakes myself or my company makes. I will not be extorted, there are too many variations in *******'s story that he is leaving out and he only has the mindset that WE did him wrong; We over charged him, we abused his vehicle. Not once in any of these BBB messages has he admitted to anything wrong. If his claims were so cut and dry, why do I have continued customers here who trust us with their expensive vehicles and spend thousands of dollars on their builds here? If we do such dirty work and abused our customer cars, our lot would be empty, wouldn't it? If all of his claims are true, wouldn't ETO have lawsuits and social media bashing by now? What we do have is a multitude of happy customers, their proven cars that they have raced for seasons on end, been driven thousands of miles with no issues after leaving our shop, and some of the best customer support in the industry. This is a two sided story - ETO and myself did mess-up in our communication to *******, and we have clearly documented that and have tried to work with *******. But he doesn't want that, he continues to add claims and false accusations. We tried to get him to return with his vehicle, he chose not to. We tried to talk on the phone, this took a very long time for him to do and after only one respectful conversation, he would never again talk on the phone to us. I would understand his actions If we were abusive or dismissed his claims but now, it has turned into a money grab and I will not stand for that. 

  1. Initial ask of 13k in restitution, but now its $10,519.86. Which is also alarming and suspect - Only after many messages - He now added on subframe damage and other issues, this is very Interesting because that would then make the restitution ask be well above 13k which was the initial complaint. Why now with a lot more issues that he is now claiming, how is the restitution amount lower?

  2. We have video documentation of the vehicle on our lift in which shows no damage at all. This was 12 hours before ******* picked the vehicle up and the vehicle was never driven, with documentation to prove it. Added information to show this is a false claim - A documented Conversation with ***** and ******* in which he completed a full inspection of his vehicle to narrow down the oil leak. No mention of frame damage then, after he even stated he did his complete vehicle inspection. This is alarming and suspect.

  3. ******* was never forced to have any work completed here at Empire. After many documented trips here, he could have stopped his build and picked the vehicle up. He did continue to pick up and sell all the parts ETO had removed off of his car during the upgrade process. Parts that were never in the Initial conversation or estimate - Yet he continued with the build, but he claims to know nothing. At no point in time did ******* not have full access to his vehicle, pictures or progress. At not one point in time was he forced or pressured to pay his bill. As it clearly shows in documented messages, ETO continued working on the vehicle. At no point in time can ******* say ETO was not willing to help with any issues after picking the vehicle up upon completion. ETO tirelessly tried to contact him, with mass time delays for his responses. Why was the vehicle not brought back here to repair anything? ETO was never hostile or unwilling to help. ******* chose to only complain and ask for money, he chose not to seek any solution besides money, even after ETO cut a *** portion off of his final bill in August, compared to the Bill that we presented to him in July.  

  4. Finally I would like correct terms to be stated - ******* was never provided with an initial quote. He was presented an estimate of services and repairs. There is a major difference between the two. "A quote is an agreed price between parties, and an estimate is a price that has been estimated for services and is therefore subject to change". 

  Here are the things I will lay out for the final time; Myself, ***** ******, ETO did fail at giving constant owed money updates. We knocked thousands off of the bill to compensate for this. Yes, his final bill was a lot more money than all of us thought when we started it, but a lot changed once we got to working on it. *******'s car was not abused during a test drive, but ETO was still willing to compensate ******* due to his take on the documented video. If ******* has any documentation that states myself, ***** ******, or **** ******* could NOT test drive the vehicle for tuning purposes and quality assurance purposes, then the situation would be different. I have not seen this documentation presented yet. Yet, after his initial claim of abuse of the vehicle, then adding many things that were pre-existing issues prior to ETO working on it, which he then claims were in result of the test drive, ETO was still willing to help fix anything wrong.   

  In conclusion, we here at Empire Tech Ohio, have tried to fix any mistakes that we justifiably have made and offered a reasonable solution for any issues that have come up. We were also willing to fix issues that were preexisting to ETO (In which we should not have to. but were willing to do for the sake of our customer and his investment). As stated in the beginning of this message; this is our final response, no further communication will be made from Empire Tech Ohio LLC, ***** ******, **** *******, *** ******, to ******* *********. I had no problem in further helping financially or physically, but I will not allow myself, company, and employees be accused of false actions. ******* chose to go this route and has no evidence to support any unwillingness for our help in a reasonable resolution. But for him to continue to change his number in restitution, but to keep all the parts and work installed on the vehicle, that is wrong. Not one time was he willing to have anything removed or undone when presented with that solution. Nothing we've done was irreversible to the vehicle. I've had work done at other shops and have delt with many other business owners - If they did work without my knowledge, I would say undo the work and take the money off. But ******* has never said that, he picked up every single old part and sold them while seeing the progress of the car at multiple stages. He has not come back to the shop or taken any option or avenue that we have presented to him to fix all of the issues he has brought up. 

  Respectively, 

  ***** ******, Empire Tech Ohio LLC

  Customer Answer

  Date: 10/30/2024

  [If you do not say why you are rejecting the company's response, BBB must close your complaint.] 
  
  
  
  Complaint: 22343038
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: 

  Thank you for your reply Idris. I agree that we are at an impasse and have not found a resolution that meets my concerns. Therefore, I am seeking arbitration to seek a fair outcome.

  Trust and Decision Not to Return to ETO: While I recognize that ETO has offered to address issues through warranty work or discounted labor, I have chosen not to bring my vehicle back due to a significant loss of trust. This decision is based on the video that documents abuse of my vehicle. Given my past experience with the initial work, I have no confidence that even a discounted rate would remain within control or meet expectations.

  Transparency Regarding Documentation and Damage Claims: ***** mentioned a video showing no damage to the vehicle on the lift prior to my pickup. If such video exists, I would be very interested in reviewing it. Additionally, I’d like to point out that they would likely have footage from the day I collected my vehicle, which would show it on the shop floor, limiting my ability to inspect it for frame damage before taking it off-site. This was an important factor in why some damage issues only became evident afterward.

  Restitution Amount: Regarding the discrepancy between the $13,000 and the $10,519.86 restitution requests: I’ve previously explained that the $13,000 figure was mistakenly provided due to a clerical error when summarizing details with an advisor. My official and only restitution request remains $10,519.86, as clearly documented in my communications.

  Consistency of My Claims: ***** mentioned that my story or claims have changed, yet I have been consistent in logging and reporting additional findings as they’ve arisen. I’ve also provided a link outlining my account of the build process and related issues, which has not changed. This ongoing documentation has been essential to accurately reflect new details and findings related to the work performed on my vehicle.

  In conclusion, given the breakdown in communication and trust, I believe arbitration is the most appropriate path forward. 

  
  
  
  Regards,
  
  
  
  ******* *********

  Business Response

  Date: 12/12/2024

  Td ********** called business due to business asking me.
  
  Advised where we are and why BBB wants to push to mediation
  
  Business expressed the money he is paying us we should have stepped in.
  
  Advised of our process.
  
  Once explained business agreed to mediate on January 8th,2025 at 1pm.
  
  Advised I would need to check with all parties and we will go from there.
  
  Issue is business is on vacation till January reaching out to consumer today