Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/24/2025

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  This business has had my personal vehicle for over a year. I have paid them over $10,000 in parts and labor for those repairs to fail in a short timeframe.
  
  They have allowed the car to sit and further degrade after promising repairs being made.
  
  After confronting the issue, the owner now back tracks to state new issues were identified after the repair that were not apart of the original diagnosis.
  
  I feel cheated and my trust in their abilities or the likihood that they actually accomplish the task of repairing the vehicle is not likely.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 07/21/2025

  From:

  *** *******, Owner of Echelon Automotive Care

  February 2022 / First Repair Order

  **** ****** reached out to Echelon Automotive Care back in February of 2022 for an estimate on the following:

  Timing Chain Job

  Higher Volume Oil Pump

  Oil Change

  Note: at no time were we asked to diagnose any issues we were just told to estimate these parts and so we did.

  Provided Estimate and scheduled the job into our rotation of work. Once we began the tear down to do the timing job other factors or issues were found. One bank of the engine had a collapsed valve. So, we recommended a head rebuild job and a new head gasket. The customer agreed to go ahead and do both sides so all parts on both banks were the same age. We reworked the estimate with added parts and labor: Listed as follows:

  >Master Timing set from Cloyes timing gears (Highly reputable company for these parts) 1 year warranty

  >Water pump (while in there replace) lifetime warranty

  >Intake manifold gasket set = 1 year warranty

  >Timing Cover Gasket Set = 1 year Warranty

  >Head bolts = 1 year warranty

  >Head gasket x 2 = 1 year warranty

  >Valve guides = 1 year warranty

  >Intake valve = 1 year warranty

  >Oil Service

  >Labor – Includes in house machine shop work

  Total = $5,615.41 including all fees and taxes and all discounts

  Job invoiced out 4/14/2022

  ____________________________________________________________

  March 2024: Second Repair order at almost 23 to 24 months apart

  The Vehicle was good and on the road for about right at two years when **** brought it back for some very similar issues. He left it for us to diagnose. During the diagnosis we found the timing guides and tensioners were yet bad again. Usually, what causes such an issue is poor oil change habits, bad oil, lack of oil and so forth. At this point we had never been told anything about any poor oil pressure issues or bad habits in oil changes or lack of oil. In hindsight I guess this could be why he requested a higher volume oil pump the first time. The following was noted and captured for diagnoses:

  Camshaft position code P0012 Possible 02 sensor Vehicle starting rough, idling rough/cuts off Failed to crank unless above 2k RPM, gas pedal pressed in at the time of attempted start. I'm having the vehicle towed, it will run, but shuts off if not throttled. Faint smell of gasoline from the exhaust.

  Codes:

  - P0012 - VVT solenoid or Engine assembly

  - P0022 - VVT solenoid or VVT actuator or Engine assembly

  - P0303 - Engine misfire cylinder 3

  - P0340 - Cam position sensor or VVT solenoid

  - P0341 - VVT solenoid or Cam position sensor

  - P0344 - Engine assembly or Cam position sensor

  - P0345 - Cam position sensor or PCM

  - P0346 - VVT solenoid or cam position sensor

  - P0349 - Cam position sensor or VVT actuator

  All pointing to worn timing again.

  Obviously, the warranty on the timing set was already out of warranty so parts and labor had to be repaid again. Estimated list as follows:

  >Master Timing Kit (Again Cloyes Brand) 1 year warranty

  >Valev Cover Gasket Set = 1 year warranty

  >Timing Cover Gasket = 1 year warranty

  >Ignition oil Pack Set = Lifetime Warranty

  > Spark Plugs

  >Antifreeze

  >Oil Service

  >Labor

  Total = $3913.22 includes taxes and fees and all discounts

  Job Invoiced on 04/02/2024

  Grand total with both Repair orders = $9528.68 includes taxes and fees and all discounts

  _________________________________________________

  May 16^th, 2024 = 42 days from last repair made

  Customer returned with the vehicle on the above date with the concern of the oil pressure light coming on and the vehicle dying on him. We began with the concern of loss of oil pressure because this can cause a slew of issues in most systems because the systems run on oil pressure including the timing system the timing phasers, the variable valve timing solenoids and more. Further research on these particular engines it was found that many people had similar issues if OEM Ford VVT Solenoids were not installed. We bought and installed Ford OEM VVT Solenoids. This did not fix the issue. We also found out that these particular engines are notorious for poor oil pressure and flow and many upgrade to a higher volume flow oil pump to “try” and help this issue. This must have been known by **** through googling when he requested the higher volume oil pump the first time. We offered to look further into the issue for free so we removed the timing cover and valve covers again to deeper inspect for possible bearing failures on anything. We sent pictures to local automotive machine shop engine builder to inquire of things and what we were finding is that the bearing surfaces on the cams were not looking so well. The cam bearing surfaces are overly scarred which will cause low oil pressure readings especially as the oil gets hotter and thins out even more. We concluded that over time the possible oiling issue of this engine damaged the bearings on the cams and even possibly the crankshaft bearings and the crank rod bearings which will cause you to lose oil pressure. At this point the “Free help you out job” had to take a back burner to daily cash flow and hence our bills in house. So, in October of 2024 when he asked for update, I told him it wasn’t looking too good but I was still waiting for some information and data from some local machine shop engine builders.

  Time went on and we never heard too much back from **** ****** so we figured it was the Holidays and all, and with what I told him could possibly be happening he was maybe writing this vehicle off. So, it sat. In 2025 when he did reach out once I told him it was an internal bearing issue most likely and he said he wanted it fixed. I said fix what? I said all things, but the water pump and ignition coil packs were out of warranty and to even redo the oil pump would be over $3000.00. Of course this didn’t sit well with him. This began the “We better fix it” routine. I said Sir I do not owe you anything at this point because you have driven for periods of time and it was fine until it wasn’t again. Tells me it has created a bigger internal issue. So, it sat even longer and I was contemplating going for an abandon title for the vehicle and that's when I saw his negative report about it all. And here we are.

  This all being said and since he is not willing to talk with me I am now charging for the stuff I was doing for free to “help” him. Listed out as follows:

  >Oil Service

  >OEM Ford VVT Solenoids

  >Removal of valve covers and timing cover for deeper inspection

  >Daily Storage fee from October of 2024 when I first told him the possible outcome and communication pretty much stopped.

  Total outstanding balance is with storage fee through October 1^st 2024 through July 20^th 2025 = $7536.12

  Echelon Automotive Care’s Options for Mr. ******:

  1.) Surrender Title to this vehicle to Echelon Automotive Care in lieu of the outstanding balance now owed to us above.

  2.) End this negative, and unjustified report against Echelon Automotive Care, come and tow vehicle out and let this all go, owing us nothing. But this claim has to be closed and nullified.

  In closing this vehicle was on a path of destruction from the first time it was in our shop. With the request of a higher volume oil pump back in 2022 now tells me that there was a possible known issue and that is why the timing was bad the first time when he requested it be done. The truck was driven for 2 years and with the possible oil pressure and flow issues more damage was done to not only the timing again but also internal bearing surfaces. All this led to the third return 42 days later after the second come back in 2024. The internal damage just became too extreme. The vehicle is still here for all this time due to the lack of action with Mr. ****** to be willing to understand all of this. We understand that most vehicle owners do not understand all of the intricate workings of today's engine. That's why we study and train on these continually. So to say he doubts our abilities is a very wrong and unfair statement directed at us. He needs an engine overhaul or another engine with less miles. Only way to totally fix this issue. But this has to be accepted and realized as fact. We do our best to help our customers understand their vehicles and its issues, we educate them as best as we can and we care about the safety of them and their families in the vehicles. We also understand customers being hit with very overwhelming situations in life and to add their vehicle issues and costs to that is overwhelming for most of us.

  I look forward to ending this dispute in a respectable manner.

  *** *******,

  Owner, Echelon Automotive Care.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/22/2025

  I picked the vehicle up on April 2nd, 2024. Returned the vehicle on April 4th after it died turning into the parking lot of my unit. My drive to work is about 11 minutes. I did let it warm up since it was below freezing that morning.

  I had the vehicle for one and half days after "repair"