Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:01/06/2025

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I had an antifreeze leak and was refilling the overflow jug daily because it was empty. I went to Smith and Son's. I dropped car off, but *** refused to give me a printed estimate. I paid $369.12 on my debit card. on 12/13/24. *** and **** said they replaced coolant elbows.
  I still had to refill antifreeze daily.
  
  I went back and *** went outside to the car and came back in and said I needed a gasket. I dropped the car off so they could start on it first thing the next morning. Again *** refused a printed estimate. He said it would be around $600.00.
  I picked up the car 4:30 pm the next day I paid $550.00 cash. For the gasket. *** would not give me a receipt or any paper work showing what was done on my car or any warranty or charges.
  Because I paid cash he said.
  I was still adding antifreeze daily. *** said bring it back, that he had to replace the radiator because it leaked. First I heard about the radiator. **** never mentioned when I called to pick it up. that he didn't do gasket and did radiator.. My son looked at my car and said the gasket had not been replaced. I took it to Hawks Auto & Cycle repair. He agreed the gasket was not replaced and he said coolant elbows not problem. Said I needed a water pump. It cost me $473.32I to replace that. I got an itemized receipt with warranty. I went to talk to ***, asked for my $550.00 back because he did not replace gasket and he refused.
  
  I told him I was not called about radiator or did I authorize it or look at a leak. I may have tried a stop leak or had my son fix it.
  I asked *** if he had the old radiator to take to the other shop and he refused to give it to me.
  
  So I want $920.12 refunded for work not done, not fixed, no estimates, no receipts, unauthorized repair, no returned parts. Plus the water pump repair on 1/02/25 of $47342. Because from 12/13/24 to 1/02/25 I made 5 trips to Smiths, added coolant daily, and go to another repair shop.
  I am 75yrs female.
  Total I want refunded is $1,393.54.

  Business Response

  Date: 01/20/2025

  Smith and Son's Automotive
  
  Customer: ****** ********
  Vehicle: 2007 Buick Lucerne 3.8L
  Issue: Coolant Leak
  
   To Whom It May Concern,
  
  This letter is to provide a detailed account of the services rendered to ****** ********'s 2007 Buick Lucerne 3.8L and the subsequent issues regarding her vehicle repairs at Smith and Son's Automotive.
  
  ****** brought her 2007 Buick Lucerne to Smith and Son's Automotive for a coolant leak inspection. During our inspection, we identified that the vehicle had multiple factory parts, and upon pressure testing the coolant system, we discovered that the factory plastic coolant elbows had become brittle and cracked, leading to coolant leaks. We contacted ****** and obtained her approval for the repairs at a cost of $369.12. We replaced the plastic coolant elbows that are prone to becoming brittle and cracking with more durable aluminum elbows (Dorman 47065hp), which is an upgraded part designed to replace the factory plastic elbows.
  
  After the initial repair, ****** contacted us about an issue with the right rear turn signal and the need to add more coolant to the reservoir. A minor inspection was done, which did not reveal any immediate leaks. However, we requested that ****** bring the vehicle back for further diagnostics to ensure there were no lingering issues, and we assured her there would be no charge if the coolant loss was due to an air pocket in the system. We also replaced the turn signal bulbs (3157 and 194) free of charge, after cutting the old sealant and removing taillight housing that had been sealed due to a previous leak, and after the bulb replacement the taillight was reinstalled and resealed.
  
  After several days later, ****** contacted us again, concerned about needing to continue adding coolant. ***, our technician, speculated over the phone that the intake gasket might be the issue and provided an estimate of $600 for replacement at ******'s request and she okayed the amount if the repair estimate did not cost anymore. On the day the repairs began, ****** informed us that she would need the vehicle back by 4 PM or would not be able to pick it up until the following day.
  
  Upon further inspection, we performed a visual inspection and pressure test deeming the intake gaskets to be in good condition and discovered a split in the plastic tank of the radiator on the driver's side. We notified ****** of this issue, the damage was severe enough that stop-leak products would not have been effective and the vehicle could not be driven with the damages. However, we were under time constraints and could not complete the radiator replacement before the 4 PM deadline if work was not started right away. The estimate for radiator replacement was $336 for the part, plus $507 for 3.9 hours of labor, totaling $843 so we decided to proceed with the work on the radiator and use the intake gasket repair estimate as the cost (as previously approved by ****** for $600) for the radiator replacement, we then gave ****** a further discount of $50 and absorbed a total loss of $293 after her multiple comments of being on social security, time constraints and having a small budget for the repairs.
  
  After complications with receiving the new radiator and installation issues, we informed ****** that we would not be able to finish the repairs in time. ****** agreed to allow us to take additional time to ensure the repairs were done properly. After further diagnostics and pressure testing, the vehicle was deemed repaired, and we did not charge ****** for the full price for the radiator replacement, which would have been an $843. Instead, we only charged her $550 for the radiator repair, which was less than the original estimate of $600 the intake gaskets would have cost. ****** had also not been able to pick up till 4:30 the next day even with the vehicle repaired earlier that day.
  
  ****** later contacted us regarding another coolant leak and instead took the vehicle to Hawk Auto & Cycle before giving us the chance to fix the issue, where she was told that the elbows would not have been the issue since they were new and made of aluminum (which was are first repair). ****** also claimed that the intake gaskets were never replaced, which then we realized that there was a miscommunication and she did not understand the radiator was replaced and not the intake gaskets. As a gesture of goodwill, we offered ****** a free water pump replacement, which she declined. During her visit to receive the water pump, she demanded a full refund of $1000 (in which we refused), although her total **** for repairs was $919.12
  
  ******'s main complaint was the intake gasket that are in good condition did not get replaced and she claims she was charged for intake gaskets not a radiator, was not informed of the radiator being damaged (although she was informed of the damage). Also claimed she was never shown the coolant elbows in which she was when picking the vehicle up the first time, also that she could not afford the water pump repair which she declined a free water pump. While we acknowledge a miscommunication regarding the radiator replacement, we stand by the work completed. The factory parts in ******'s vehicle were indeed in critical need of replacement, coolant elbows and the radiator, both of which were causing issues. The water pump was tested during diagnostics and tested good but was also a factory water pump and the higher heated pressure of the cooling system must have caused it to fail.
  
  We have reviewed all repairs and are confident that the work performed was both necessary and appropriate for the condition of the vehicle. We do not believe a refund is warranted, as the repairs were thoroughly inspected, tested, and deemed necessary to ensure the vehicle's continued function.
  
  Thank you for your time and attention to this matter.
  
  Sincerely,
  **** *****
  Smith and Sons Automotive

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/22/2025

  
  
  Complaint: ********
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I stand by my original complaint. The elbows were replaced but I was shown one elbow which was not broken, cracked or brittle but appeared to be a brand new part. I did have a turn signal replaced and was told as a courtesy to customers for free but I gave the guy $5.00. With my leak I was only filling over flow jug about 8 oz to fill line. Radiator was always full. *** the OWNER did a pressure check on my engine while I was there when he said I needed the gasket. I dropped it off on Thursday the 26th of Dec and **** the OWNER said he would get on it first thing 8am Friday morning,  **** the OWNER  called around 1pm Friday and said he was putting it back together. He lied there was NO mention of the radiator at all. I Talked to *** the OWNER and he said pick it up at 4:30. They close at 5 and not open weekends, again no mention of radiator.

  I picked it up and paid $550 for what I believed to be gasket. Refused paperwork proof  because I paid cash. I refilled again and talked to *** on Monday and he told me of the radiator then. He said bring it back on the !st of Jan. My son checked the car and saw no gasket replaced.  Why would I go back to Smith's when I was lied to and not repaired. Went to Hawk's for second opinion. I called **** about water pump and he said he would give me one but Hawk's could not warranty his part. The water pump was never brought up at Smith's.I never said I didn't have the money. Also Hawk's found that the bolt that tightens the alternator to the engine was missing and was loose,he showed me and replaced it That could have caused my belts to break.,

  I then went to Smith's shop to complain and asked for money back for gasket but he refused. Refused to return the old radiator part. I told him I did not authorize radiator and could have tried Stop Leak or had my son fix it and he said "Why didn't he fix all of it" But I had no choice in the matter..There was no big safety issue. I am not going to drop this and I will go to any length to get this resolved. I will meet them in person if needed. In every paragraph was a lie in their response of what really happened. They broke all rules of estimates, receipts, warranty, parts returned and now can only lie to cover up what they did and make up stuff.They are the owners of the shop.I would be ashamed if I were them. 
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  
  
  ****** ********

  Business Response

  Date: 01/23/2025

  Smith & Son's Automotive
  
  Customer: ****** ********
  Vehicle: 2007 Buick Lucerne 3.8L
  Issue: Coolant Leak
  
  To Whom It May Concern,
  
  We would like to address the concerns raised by ****** ******** regarding the repairs to her 2007 Buick Lucerne. While we understand that there was a miscommunication surrounding the intake gasket and radiator, we would like to make it right, but will not refund and essentially pay for all of ******'s much needed vehicle repairs due to a misunderstanding. We stand by the fact that the statements we made were truthful. ****** indicated she had a limited time and budget, and we provided her with information about the broken coolant elbows (along with showing her the broken ones from her vehicle upon pickup) and the condition of the radiator, which had a large crack that could not be repaired with stop leak (which we don't advise to do with any leaks). If the water pump had failed while at our shop, she would have been further informed of the issue and it would have been repaired but the tests at our shop did not show a leaking water pump at the moment, from ******'s statements the vehicle was leaking fluid but not a rate that would damage any part of the vehicle as the coolant system holds 11.2 quarts of coolant and she states only losing 8oz at a time but never could tell us how much and quickly prior. We could not supply the old radiator on Monday when requested, as it had been disposed of on Friday evening when are metal items are sent to be recycled and ****** denied wanting to see old parts on Friday.
  
  While the continued statement of *** being an "OWNER" of the shop there was a transfer of ownership and *** had retired but is now only a part time technician due to his health, he gives estimates and some vehicle repairs, ****** states he went outside to pressure check the vehicle and returns to state its the intake gasket, we find this to be false as *** does not handle the coolant pressure testing unit due to health reasons, the vehicle would have been to hot and dangerous to do a pressure checked after being driven to the shop and he had talked with ****** over the phone when giving the $600 estimate.
  
  It seems that ****** has developed a strong desire to seek a full refund and payment for a water pump repair from Smith & Sons Automotive, and has gone as far as to make slanderous statements across media platforms in which knowledge of this was brought forth to our attention by numerous customers stopping in and discussing it, in which this could hinder our future profits. However, we would continue to think of ****** as a valued customer and hope in the future could be a customer again, if she desired. We maintain that the repairs we performed are highly necessary and executed properly. In the issue of the coolant elbows, to radiator and on to the water pump needing repaired in a short period of time, this is not uncommon for additional issues to arise once full pressure is restored, when the vehicle is returned to service and gets hot and cold shortly after a repair, especially in an older vehicles along with new parts that can sometimes fail unexpectedly.
  
  Regarding the claim that a bolt was missing from the alternator, we want to emphasize that if such a bolt was missing and needed, it would have been replaced with a new or equivalent bolt as part of the repair process. We cannot overlook the fact that a bolt of the size described by ****** would be hard to forget or miss, as it plays a critical role in securing the alternator and bracket. We also can not figure out how a bolt could be loose and missing.
  
  It was also brought to are attention that Hawk Auto & Cycle Service Center while having numerous compliments, also have several complaints of lack of knowledge, rudeness, overcharging and unsafe repairs and non repairs on google ratings and has a BBB rating of F for failure to respond to two complaints without response for damage to vehicle and a person, not repairing and overcharging for vehicle repairs along with not being BBB accredited. We do not see the statements of the coolant elbows (******'s statement of what Hawk Auto & Cycle told her) as true, Hawk Auto (per ******'s story and reason for a full refund) the only leak was the water pump, not the two coolant elbows, intake gasket or radiator, as these motors are well known for all four issues. This sounds more like to us a disgruntled customer coming into an automotive repair facility, getting told anything to make them angry towards another business, to obtain their trust and business. Hawks Auto would have seen two brand new aluminum elbows and unable to see the radiator due to a panel that covers it, in which they do not state looking at the radiator, only the intake gaskets that we said we didn't replace (prior to ****** going to Hawks) due to being in good condition, but instead did the needed radiator replacement at the intake cost which is the miscommunication causing this complaint. Also to bring forth another issue the water pump replacement labor time is 1.2hrs and $163.76 for the water pump under the recommended all data repair rates, ****** was possibly overcharged at Hawks Auto & Cycle by roughly $153.56, if labor was the same as our price of $130 an hour and held to the list price of the water pump, ****** was charged 309.56 in labor/diagnostics alone (depending on how much coolant (2 gallons normally), our price is at $20 a gallon), Labor, Taxes and Coolant charge of Hawk Auto & Cycle are not included in any of our estimates stated above as we do not no the prices given, just the end price of $473.32. Our estimate of the water pump repair would have been $100 for the water pump, $40 for coolant and $130 for labor totaling $300 before taxes and credit card fees, saving ****** a rough estimated total of $466.32 across the total repair **** of her aged vehicle.
  
  ****** also mentioned that there was no major safety issue, and we agree with this assessment. While a damaged serpentine belt could cause an inconvenience, it is not considered a safety issue in the immediate sense. The vehicle would simply require repair to restore proper functionality.
  
  We are eager to resolve this matter with ****** as soon as possible, as we are experiencing a high volume of work. However, we do not believe any refund is warranted. ****** was offered a complimentary water pump that we would have warrantied for the inconvenience, offered a complimentary repair of the water pump and to be shown or given old parts, all in which she declined. We stand behind the work we performed and will continue to honor any warranties for the needed parts we installed. We will also be putting forth contingencies to make sure any further miscommunications ever happen again as the business and customer base continues growing. It is important to note that further maintenance could be needed for ******’s 18-year-old vehicle. But we do wish the best and value all are customers and hope ****** the best.
  
  Thank you for your attention to this matter.
  
  Sincerely,
  **** *****
  Smith & Son's Automotive

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/24/2025

  
  
  Complaint: ********
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I am tired of more lies.We can do this forever. I am retired, I have no constraints of time but did not want to leave my car there all weekend while they were closed. I could have dropped it another time if it was more convenient for them. I picked up antifreeze at Auto zone and the salesman told me to go to Hawk"s.  I actually paid less than the **** when I settled with him in cash. Got a receipt and a 2 yr warranty which is more than I got from Smith's. They were already fixing the water pump when I called ****. Because that was my second opinion on the gasket they said they replaced and didn't. After 2 weeks with Smith's I just wanted my car fixed. 

  Which **** has failed to respond as to why I never got paper work. I have no proof I was even there and and they did any work. I have no warranty on anything. What if the radiator leaks? they can say they never even worked on my car. *** said "we know you were here" Who does that? They fixed my car on Friday, I picked it up at 4:30 and paid for gasket.I thought.  They didn't tell me they put a radiator in. How could I know to ask for the old part Friday? I paid nothing for the alternator bolt. I think when they replaced the elbows they did not replace the Bolt. If the alternator came off and fell on to my belts it was a real driving safety issue for me.

  I see no sense in going back and forth over this because they will not own up and pay up. So I want to continue with my complaint for now with the BBB. If they won't settle or we cannot through the BBB I want to let them know I will continue with Court and the Attorney General, Consumer Protection, social media or whatever I have to do. I am aware I may never get my money back but hopefully I can create an effect on their business so they can never do this again to anyone else. And it will end up costing them more in the long run.
  
  
  
  Sincerely,
  
  
  
  ****** ********

  Business Response

  Date: 01/29/2025

  Smith & Son's Automotive
  
  Customer: ****** ********
  Vehicle: 2007 Buick Lucerne 3.8L
  Issue: Coolant Leak
  
  To Whom It May Concern,
  
  We appreciate ****** sharing her concerns with us regarding the repair of her vehicle. After careful review of the situation, we have noted several inconsistencies in the information ****** provides, and it seems we are not able to reach a mutual understanding at this time.
  
  We want to emphasize that at Smith & Sons, we take great pride in offering fair and honest service to all of our customers, including those referred to us through trusted sources like are friends at the Eagles as ****** was. It is never our intention to mislead or take advantage of anyone, and we always strive to ensure transparency in our work and pricing.
  
  Unfortunately, after multiple attempts to clarify the matter, it seems we are unable to come to a resolution that satisfies both parties. As such, we have made the decision to discontinue further communication on this matter.
  
  We genuinely value the relationships we have with all our customers, and we regret that we were unable to find a satisfactory resolution in this case. We wish ****** the best.
  
  Thank you for your time.
  
  Sincerely,
  **** *****
  Smith & Sons