Complaints

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  J & J Concrete & Paving, LLC

  PO Box 629 Havertown, PA 19083

  
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  J & J Concrete & Paving, LLC

  108 E Baltimore Ave Lansdowne, PA 19050-2539

  

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:04/24/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Dates of concrete work - December 13-15, 2021.
  Date of inspection by owner and payment to J & J - December 22, 2021.
  Amount of Payment - $6950.00.
  Business commitment - New concrete steps, patio, and walkway in the backyard with no cracking within 30 days guaranteed.
  Nature of the dispute - The concrete began cracking within two weeks of payment. We had bad weather conditions for freshly poured unprotected concrete. We also have a problem with discoloration. Also, the fence post was incorrectly placed back into its hole - not plumbed or at the correct distance. We do not have this problem in the front of our house where the concrete was poured within a year or two by two different companies. J & J does not deny the guarantee needs to be fulfilled, but they are worried salt may hay have gotten onto the unprotected concrete. The company was told of this problem on January 16, 2022, via email, and I was told someone would be sent out to see the problem, but no one came until May 2022 after some more emails. I understood J & J's predicament of needing a plan of action based on whether salt got onto the unprotected concrete. Possibly later on in the winter salt may have inadvertently landed or flowed onto the unprotected concrete, but I am unaware of this. Two whole winters have now gone by compounding any sort of investigation. There has been no movement in this case since May 2022, or August 2022 if you want to count a no-status reply. I've sent multiple emails, made a phone call, and sent a message via their website to get this moving, the last communication being in April 2023. There have been no replies from them this year. To me, this expanded time has made any investigation moot, I could be wrong. I do not know what else is needed to get this moving and don't understand the long delay.

  Business Response

  Date: 05/23/2023

  Hello, we did initially contact *** ****** back and the owner **** went out to asses the damage. It was clear the homeowner used salt on his new concrete work which we explained to him not to do. The owner of J&J also showed pictures to his concrete supplier and they both came to the same conclusion that salt was used. We guarantee our work for 30 days against cracks or damage and unfortunately by *** ****** using salt it voids any warranty or replacement. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 05/25/2023

  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed as Answered]
  
  
  
   Complaint: ********
  
  
  
  I am rejecting this response because: J&J nor their supplier made a proper assessment immediately upon notification of the issue. The transaction was finalized on December 22, 2021 with J&J's work assessment and my payment. The notification of the problem was made within the 30 days of the guarantee. There has never been an issue of notification or that the issue not falling within the guarantee. After being told John is coming out to assess the situation, he delayed until May 2022 to arrive at my home. He came out after prodding him to do so. Still, he came out because the problem fell under the guarantee.

  The last thing I was told was that the supplier was coming to my house to assess the situation with no date expressed, and John of J&J would return July. Nobody came to my house to perform a proper assessment.  Even J&J did not come to my house in July. He said he was not going to "ghost" me, but he did. Our conversations were never about salt voiding the contract. It was about how to fix the patio as seen in the attached email conversation from August. Still, the conversation presented in the email was his reasoning for the delay until July - the suppliers assessment.  Delay after delay after delay is all I have been experiencing in getting this problem rectified. I am still waiting for the supplier and J&J.

  There is no negligence by me or my household that would void the guarantee.  No salt was used on the patio all winter of 2021-2022 or 2022-2023. No proof of my negligence has been provided, only a hypothesis. But regarding his refusal to fulfill the guarantee, there are no stipulations in the contract that void the guarantee. There is no evidence of him providing me or my household any care instructions. Nevertheless, no salt was used, and no proof has been supplied that salt was applied during the guarantee. 

  This is a clear case of negligence on J&J's part. They did not protect the concrete from cold and freezing weather conditions, and they created overly thick and deep rosettes, and most likely other troweling missteps.  Furthermore J&J did not provide me with any care documentation, nor stipulated anything in the contract that would void the guarantee.

  Regards,
  

  
  
  
  ******* ******

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/30/2023

  I want J&J to repair or replace the patio. A refund is in order if he does not want to do either. I hold no ill will against J&J; I want the damage fixed as J&J stated they would do or at least lead me to believe. I want this complaint to be about facts and evidence and not a causal causation hypothesis regarding salt. I did not use salt. J&J was told this. They had every opportunity to see and test this damage early, shortly after it was noticeable. As stated, nobody visited me to test the salt hypothesis further, even though I was told someone would. The most I was told is that it “looks like salt damage,” There has been no explanation for how the assessment was reached and recognized as fact without proper testing. I’ve attached documentation regarding J&J’s initial delays.
  
  For the record, we had concrete work completed in 2020 and 2021 by other companies. That prior work was completed during the Spring and Summer months, but still, we were told by the contractors not to use salt during the first winter. Going into our contract with J&J, we knew not to use salt despite what J&J might or might not have said.
  
  Before they worked on my patio, I warned J&J that the cold might damage the concrete. I’ve seen it happen. He said not to worry; they do it all the time. I’ve now learned that is correct. Cold curing may be the best for concrete since it is a slow cure, but cold and freezing temperatures can damage curing concrete and negatively affect its strength if not protected. The contractor must take the necessary steps to ensure protection from the cold. Those protections were never made to my patio.
  
  I have attached a spreadsheet of the weather for Havertown, PA,  during the days of the guarantee. This information was gathered from world-weather.info As seen in the attachment, despite warm temperatures during the days of the work, the temperatures did dip below 40 degrees at night and did not stay above 50 degrees for 12 hours or more until we got to the fourth and fifth days when it stayed above the 50-degree mark for those days. The first 24 hours and these days are crucial to the initial curing of the concrete, but by no means do those days prepare it for multiple days of freezing temperatures. The following week, we then got rain and freezing temperatures. Winter was upon us, and our concrete was not prepared for it nor protected.
  
  The following is what I have learned over the last 18 months:
  
  Moisture should not be added to cold-curing concrete. The rain and snow added moisture to the unprotected concrete. The efflorescence (white substance) in the pictures and other discoloration shows the presence of too much moisture forcing the concrete minerals and chemicals to the surface. Please look at the attached pictures from February 3 and 18, 2022, for the discoloration.
  During below-40 weather, concrete curing halts.
  Natural freeze-thaw cycles occurred during the guarantee period, with freezing temperatures at night and above-freezing temperatures during the day. You can see the temperatures in the spreadsheet. 
  The concrete did not have ideal curing conditions.
  Salt only promotes a freeze-thaw cycle, especially at lower temperatures below freezing. Unless it is a particular type of salt, it does not chemically break down the concrete.
  Scaling can occur under these weather conditions, and it did occur.
   
  The most damage was the areas where we did not clear the patio of the snow that occurred on January 3, 2022. Our steps and walkway were spared physical damage since they were cleared—any damage to the landing in front of the step extended from damage during these 30 days. My brother-in-law clears the steps, then does an about shovel-wide clearing on the landing, and then clears the walkway. Nobody told us to clear all the snow from the concrete, and I should not have been expected to know that information. Again, the poorly cured concrete was not protected from the elements. The damage was apparent by January 7, 2022, but my brother-in-law could see some damage before this day but could not discern or comprehend it.
  
  As seen in the spreadsheet, the freeze-thaw cycle naturally occurred, damaging the poorly cured unprotected concrete. If J&J had come to my home immediately when notified, assessed the damage, and maybe been more informed, he would have been more aware of the root cause of the issue instead of using his salt hypothesis. I hope I have clearly explained my position and provided facts and some evidence of what occurred during the guarantee period.
  
  ******* ******

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/25/2023

  I have shown that J & J was waiting for their supplier to come to my house to analyze the concrete before stating a plan of action. After ignoring me and me getting the Better Business Bureau involved, they state they are not fixing their problem because of salt. This statement is without the supplier coming to my house to analyze the patio. If the vendor could only make the assessment in person and never came to make it, then J & J’s statement leans towards being false. I was never included in those conversations with the vendor. There was no evidence presented that they even talked to the vendor.  Regardless, salt was never initially the issue, but rather how we would fix it.
  
  I have shown that salt was not needed during the guaranteed period. J & J has not provided evidence that salt was used.  J & J has also not shown how salt nullifies the guarantee. If this nullification is their claim, no wording is stated in the contract. 
  
  ******* ******