Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:08/01/2022

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I am considering buying and building on a 21-acre property on ********* in St, ****** Township. I went to the township office to have the land perc tested. The town told us we to pay them $495 for the perc. and we must hire a backhoe to dig the probe holes. The town said there was only 1 company to perform the test, JWP Environmental ***** who would contact us to schedule. We waited for contact & even called his office but no one called back. Instead JWP called the property owner's realtor who told us when the probe would occur, although I was ordering & paying for the test and scheduling A&S. I was on site for the probe test on May 23, 2022. JWP had A&S dig 2 holes, then after glancing at the second hole had him dig 2 more. JWP said I would need to dig perc holes by hand & get 65 gallons of water on site for the perc. JWP said he could do it for $280 dollars. I said we would do it, and we did. When JWP showed up to do the perc., he had picked the wrong spot because there was still water in the holes from the night before. He said we would need to do another probe. We asked that he dig the holes this time. Then we got a bill $380 for him to dig the holes, and were charged for 2 more probes, and the perc. I called the township and they said I had to call JWP. I called JWP to ask about the bill, I thought there was a mistake. I was told she would talk to the owner and call me back. When I didn't get called back I called again. Someone else answered and refused to explain what the $495 we paid to the town was for. She told me to ask the town who already told me the fees are set by JWP. After repeatedly asking she said I would be charged $150 by JWP every time a hole was dug, or he showed up. He charged more than he quoted for the perc holes. I said OK I will pay the bill and I did. A few days later I got a new bill with a $150 charge for yet another probe hole and a $75 charge for my calling her, even though the letter they sent said I should feel free to call.

  Business Response

  Date: 08/18/2022

  Below I have detailed a response to the complainants statements as detailed in the Customer’s Statement of Problem. 
  ? “ The town told us we to pay them $495 for the perc.” 
  ? This fee is accurate based upon the municipality's (township, not town) approved fee schedule and is a minimum starting point for an entire septic approval process to final system installation/inspection. Fee schedule to be detailed more later. 
  ? “ The town said there was only 1 company to perform the test, JWP Environmental, inc…” 
  ? By the Pennsylvania Sewage Facilities Act 537, the municipality is required to officially appoint at their annual reorganizational meeting, an individual to serve as a primary Sewage Enforcement officer (SEO) and an alternate SEO. I am the appointed primary SEO, for this municipality and have been so for over 25 years. Each year (traditionally every five) I propose an ‘official set’ of costs to perform said SEO tasks and duties some on a per task basis some on an hourly basis. The township then approves said fees, which becomes the approved fee schedule used to bill all projects within that township . The primary SEO performs ALL SEO duties in the township (soils testing, permitting, inspections, 
  investigatory and enforcement actions, etc etc…) The only time the ‘alternate SEO’ is used is when I am physically incapable of performing said duties. This helps to prevent property owners from shopping for answers only they may desire. I am also the owner and president of JWP Environmental, inc. The company name is for liability and insurance purposes to protect myself and family. 
  ? “Instead JWP called the property owner’s realtor who told us when the probe would occur….” 
  ? Correct, our office had received calls from the complainant and property owners realtor. Each received, to the best of my knowledge, returned calls with 
  messages, not necessarily speaking to someone. It was learned each was calling regarding the same property. Yes the initial scheduled date was provided to the realtor as our office had had positive interactions with her before. 
  ? “ JWP said I would need to dig perc holes by hand & get 65 gallons of water on site for the perc. JWP said he could do it for $280.” 
  ? Yes I would have and did discuss appropriate procedures for preparing the percolation test, to be followed by written instructions. Yes, I likely offierd my company ‘could’ prepare the percolation test, if they desired, but NEVER would have I quoted a specific number such as $280. Reason being I am the SEO for municipalities in three separate counties with slightly varying fee schedules. It is
  impossible for me to recall in the field specific costs for such services for each municipality. For this reason I am confident I did not quote this number because I would not have wanted to provide false information to an individual. Generally, if asked about percolation preparation I will state ‘several hundred dollars’, then if interested will confirm exact amounts if requested. 
  ? “When JWP showed up to do the perc. He had picked the wrong spot because there was still water in the holes from the night before.” 
  ? This initial test was prepared by the complainant's husband. Yes, when we arrived to perform the actual percolation test several of the holes had water remaining in them after the previous days required presoak, typically not a good sign when testing the drainage of a site. The percolation test rate is an average of all six test holes, a few good tests can be mixed with a few bad and still receive acceptable average results. Therefore, the perc test was initiated. After recording data from the initial required presoak, it was obvious, if the test was completed until the end of all required readings it would be unsuitable. Hence, on behalf of the complainant the test was abandoned at this point so as not to charge her for a full test fee which would have failed. Instead she was ultimately billed for half of a percolation test on this date. Note: billing of half a test is also not part of the official fee schedule but is done on behalf of applicants and property owners to try and save them some money. Likewise, NEVER is there a guarantee, a site will pass, especially a percolation test that has many factors that can influence its acceptability which are not under my control (perhaps percolation test holes dug and prepared by others not was well versed, 
  knowledgable or able to follow our instruction sheet, hence why we offer our services). 
  What the complaintantant fails to relay is on one occasion (I believe actually two) I had lengthy conversations with the compaintant’s husband about testing procedures, protocols, different types of suitable septic systems in Pennsylvania, his concerns, etc….. He had actually thanked me for taking so much time to explain things to him. He also similarly stated it had taken him over 4 hours to prepare the initial percolation test, his hands hurt for days and he would not be doing that again. I am confident this is when I offered our company could prepare the next percolation test, but do not recall discussing fees for said services nor being requested for a quote to do so. 
  A second day of probe testing was arranged. On this date the compaintant was not present; her husband was. Two sets of two deep probes (total of 4) were completed. The first set was somewhat near the area of the unsuitable previous perc test. These probes were technically suitable, but generally similar to the ones where the original percolation test was initiated. Based upon said results, in my professional opinion, and my experience with the soils in the area, I did not think it wise to attempt a percolation test here. This was discussed with the husband, and a second set of deep probes was performed farther downslope and farther away from the proposed home. Here the probes seemed slightly better. At the direction of the husband, we
  agreed our office would prepare the next percolation test. The testing was scheduled, and the complainant notified when it would be completed. Our office visited the site the day before the scheduled date of the test and properly dug and prepared the percolation test. The following day we visited the site and performed a successful percolation test, each day providing the necessary water to prepare and complete said testing. 
  As for the phone calls and billing questions. Please understand my small office is going through a significant personnel change. My assistant of over 26 years is retiring from working with sewage enforcement work, and transitioning out. She is the one who handled billing and answering phone calls pertaining to such and many other associated duties. A new assistant has been hired, is being trained, but on the job less than 3 months. As well as my wife has also been helping in the office to try and keep things moving. Likely the complainant talked to one or all three of the above I am not sure. When her billing concerns were brought to my attention I did personally review her file, and there were billing errors made. Appropriate corrections and adjustments were taken, and the compaintant notified in writing of such and an updated invoice with credits was sent. The payments which the complainant has now made, were for services rendered by this office according to the municipalities approved fee schedule and this pays for the project in full up to this date. Note: Additional fees will be required if the project is pursued further for permitting and inspection fees. To date the complainant has gotten what she has paid for and gotten successful results. Her results will now be forwarded to her. This was also discussed by the aforementioned real estate agent who recently called inquiring about such. 
  To be clear there is no more testing which is required at this time. Yes, each visit this office would make to this or any site to evaluate deep probes is $150/set of two based upon the municipality's approved fee schedule. NO there was not a $75 charge for her calling and talking to someone at our office. This $75 fee is ½ of the Townships approved processing fee of $150, pursuant to the second set of tests performed. This is an administrative fee charged by the municipality to cover the costs of DEP required reports, letters, emails, phone calls, etc… completed by our office and not specifically covered in the per task billing. It clearly states on the invoice “Township Processing Fee. Pays for phone calls, form completion, letters, etc…” JWP was actually lowering their costs by only charging ½ of this fee rather than a full fee. 
  Bottom line, the complainant was billed for services rendered either required or requested by this office, under the township's approved fee schedule, and she is currently paid in full for said services. The 21 acre site she was looking to purchase has a generally suitable tested area where a septic system could be designed for, permitted, installed and inspected. 100% completion of the initial goal of finding a suitable site for a septic system on a new lot. 
  Respectfully submitted, 
  Jonathan *. P****
  
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/18/2022

  [To assist us in bringing this matter to a close, you must give us a reason why you are rejecting the response. If no reason is received your complaint will be closed as Answered]
  
   Complaint: ********
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
  
  I was limited at what I could say by the number of permitted characters so I was unable to explain the extent of the rude and unprofessional behavior  of JWP.   When I went to the town and paid my fee I was told he would contact me to set it up, but he did not. He contacted the realtor for the property who really had nothing to do with the probe/perc testing.  I had to call at least 5 times before anyone called me back and then he said he didn't have time to explain anything to me and his secretary would call me, which she did not. *, *******************************, was the person who was on site for the first probe. My other contractor who was operating the excavator dug 2 holes where JWP told him to. He looked at the first hole and said it looked ok, but when he looked at the second, he immediately didn't like it and had the excavator contractor dig two more holes. He never told me JWP would be charging me an extra $150 to have him look at another set of probe holes, even though I was standing there asking questions the whole time. I had no idea he would charge more money since looking at the first hole only took a few minutes and he didn't even look at the second because it was obvious to him it wouldn't work. I even asked him about costs. When he explained the work we would have to do in preparing the perc holes he said his company could do it for an additional $280. I said I thought we could do it ourselves to save money, and we did. When he showed up to test the perc. holes is quickly became obvious that they wouldn't work so he told ***** we would have to redo the entire process. At this point everything seemed okay moving forward to do another set of probe/perc. We had not received any additional bills at this time. 

  About a month later he scheduled to dig the probes again, which we found out via postal mail just a few days before he had scheduled it because they do not use email or phone to contact anyone ever. We quickly called anther excavator contractor for that day and my husband ************************************* was on site to oversee the process. Once again he had the excavator dig 2 sets of probe holes. This ******************* asked him to do the prep for the perc. because at $280 it seemed worth the effort (it was quite hot and sunny at the location) and we were told we had to dig the 6 holes by hand, which is laborious. Everything went fine and the perc. test passed this time. Then, a few weeks later, we got the bill which made no sense because there were 2 probes listed and we had already paid for the first probe test. When I called I got a hold of a woman who said she didn't know the details of the test and would have to ask the owner, *******************, and call me back. When I didn't receive a call back after 2 das I called again.  A different woman answered and refused to explain the bill. She was downright nasty and said I needed to call the town.  I explained that I already had and they said the costs were set by JWP and they didn't know what they were. If the town supposedly approved it that doesn't make much sense.  After repeatedly asking her what the different things meant she said finally admitted that he charged $150 just to show up on site.  She also said he charges an additional $150 every time he has the excavator contractor dig more holes. I was shocked because that was news to me.  Then after I agree to pay the bill, which I did that same day I spoke to her, she sent yet another bill charging me over $200 more with some new made up expense! They also decided to charge me $150 for the second probe test from the first round. I assumed that was a penalty for bothering her and being surprised at the additional charges that were never explained to me. I was shocked they charged an additional $150 for showing up since doctors and lawyers don't even charge that much. They also had added some new made up charge that was not explained. Why was there now, after the final bill had been sent, new charges being added other than because I had annoyed her by asking what the charges were for? 

  
  

  He admits saying "a couple hundred" even though I remember an exact amount.  He did not state that I, *******************************, was the person he met on site to do the probe test, not my husband ***********, which he charged me an extra $150 for because he chose the wrong spot to dig at first. He didn't tell me that would cost extra before telling the equipment operator to dig any holes.  He did not tell me bringing the water up would cost extra. He didn't tell me he would add extra charges if I questioned his secretary either about what the expenses were for, but that is exactly what he did.  To this date I don't understand his billing practices, and they refused to explain it to me for some reason.  Before performing any work that will cost me additional fees, those fees should be explained to me, but I was completely unaware they existed. I have owned several houses, and built my last home as well, and never had to work with such an unprofessional company before  Horrible experience which led me to cancel the purchase of the property because I did not want to deal with him in the future, and prevented me from looking at any other properties in the area. The entire thing took months to complete for some strange reason and the only time he spoke to my husband and explained stuff was when ***** was physically present for the second probe test. Even then he did not explain to my husband ***********, that we would be charged extra for him digging extra holes for once again choosing a poor location for the first set of probe holes.  He talks about the perc holes in his response, but I have no issue with his perc. process other than him not telling us the true cost of the process. No one should be charged for expenses without first being told what they are, especially when we asked! We had no idea an extra probe hole dug the same day by another contractor, just 15 minutes after the first  holes were dug by that contractor, would cost me an extra $150 from JWP. I paid extra to the contractor doing the digging, which is expected since he is doing the work and getting paid by the hour, but not by JWP who did nothing but watch and spend maybe 10 extra minutes looking at a hole. I thought that was covered in the $300 I had already paid him to show up and do the probe. Instead I ended up paying another $300 because each probe test he did he had the excavator contractor dig an extra set.  He could have done that all day and just kept charging me $150 over and over and I would have had no clue until I got the bill. That is not a proper way to run any business. It is unethical and unfair to the customer. This is especially galling because I had no option but to use this person who refused to answer phone calls from the onset. When I met him on site I asked questions and he answered them but ever told me anything about the extra expenses so I was left in the dark until after the second time we had him out to redo the entire processes. After that second set I was sent a bill with all sorts of extra expenses making it cost almost twice what the initial probe/perc. cost. When I called I was put off until reaching a secretary who was very rude and refused to answer my questions. Instead she sent yet another bill, without warning, saying I owed even more money. I have paid all these absurd costs even though I found them very unfair just to have it all over with, but this practice should not be allowed to continue.  Customers should know what the charges will be before work begins. Even if there are additional things found on site, either my husband or I were present so we could easily have been told.  He should know what we will be charged as well. Saying that he works in several municipalities where he isn't allowed to charge such high rates as he was in the township this property was located in is no excuse. It is his responsibility as owner and operator of the business to know what customers will be charged and to clearly relay that information to us prior to moving forward. He should have had that information clearly written out and he could have given that to me either before the appointment or at the appointment. He chose to hide this information from the customers. When I asked the cost of the perc. prep, while we was doing the first set of probes (which eventually failed) he told me a cost that turned out to be $100 less then what I was charged.  I was clearly concerned about costs or I would not have asked yet he did not tell me that the work performed the day I was there was going to cost $150 more than I had paid for the test, in addition to the quote for the perc. prep that he lied about.
  
  
  Regards,
  
  *******************************