Complaints

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:02/13/2023

  Type:Order Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  We contracted with Timberworks Design in Summer '22 to help us design our home that we are building in ************. Unfortunately, the design Timberworks planned out for us was too expensive and we had to pivot to another design/designer. We have in our records having paid Timberworks Design $14,600 for the full scope of work. However, the original scope included site visit, construction consultations, and timber frame shop review that we'll no longer need. As such it seems only fair to ask for a return payment for the money unrendered, which we estimate to be around $2,500. We have emailed the designer repeatedly and left messages without any response.

  Business Response

  Date: 02/15/2023

  Having a filed complaint with the BBB is something new to us and not exactly sure how the process works so I will do be best to outline the project the best I can to help explain our side of the story and how we ended up on here.
  We are obviously very sorry to hear that our clients project came in over budget and that they are not satisfied with our services. We understand that client would like a refund for the site visit, which we are more than happy to process for them.
  However, we would like to clarify that the timber frame shop drawing review and construction consultation are items included in the purchase of the pre-design drawing package that are not refundable. To elaborate on the construction consultation is that we are in essence saying that if the builder has a question, we are more than happy to field his call. With that said this is not quantifiable at the time of the proposal and typically requires **** mins to go over and explain a specific question and is not something we are going to sit here and nickel and dime the client for. The timber frame shop drawing review is also a very simple process and is in place to protect all parties involved (the client, timberworks, and the timber framer). How this process works is we design and schematically engineer the timber frame to which a 3D timber frame model is created. This timber frame model is then sent down to ************** to which they create their timber frame shop drawings from as well as have the frame reviewed and stamped by the structural engineer. Once the final shop drawings are created ************** sends us the shop drawings as well as their 3D timber frame model. We then simple import their 3D model which was originally drawing by us and over lay their 3D timber frame model on top of our original 3D timber frame model and look for discrepancies. This process involves a quick run through to make sure everything is how we designed it and that braces are not put in in front of windows for example (most common). This is an extremely simple process and does not take us much time to do. To be clear that this is something that we are not actually responsible for and is in the clients contract with ************** that they the client or their GC review and sign off on the timber frame shop drawing, not timberworks. I urge the clients to go back and look over their ************** contract to which they find that to be the case. We take on unneeded liability for doing this but again it is a simple task for us since we have the tools and the familiarity with the frame and want to be as helpful to our clients as possible through this process and again something we are not going to nickel and dime the client for.
  There are a couple comments in the clients complaint that I would like to take this opportunity to address since this is a public from my understanding may be posted publicly.
  A) Our original contract with the client for the full scope of work was not $14,600 it was for $11,200. The client purchased our ***** House Plan for $5400 and made $5800 worth of customizations to the design package and had two additional rounds of major design overhauls falling outside the original scope of work which both were taken to the final drawing package stage as well as hired an interior designer who also made significant changes which is ultimately how they ended up at $14,600. With that said the client found our ***** House Plan on ************** website. To give a background on how this process works is that ************** markets our house plans so they can sell their timber frame and SIP panel packages. Very common in the industry mainly because potential clients can call in inquire about a specific house plan and get a proposal on what the timber frame and panel package will costs before purchasing the house plan from us. If youre not familiar with timber frame construction the timber frame and panel package, make up roughly 75-80% of the above ground material package. This means the rafter systems, floor systems etc. as well as including the entire insulated building envelope. The clients also were in contact with their builder in the early stages which we talked to on many occasions to which we have emails dating back to last Augusts where the client is telling us the builder is estimating the build to be around $300 a square foot. We want to reiterate that it was made very clear to the client and to all clients for that matter that we can only speculate on potential building costs and is a unrealistic and unfair expectation to think otherwise. At the end of the day the final drawing package provides builders or builder the ability price and bid on the job. This is how you arrive at the final construction number and this process typically involves a bidding process where multiple companies bid on the project. This particular client was choose not to go out to bid and worked with a builder who in our assessment may have been unfamiliar with this construction method and intern gave them a estimated build costs per square foot based to which later came back with a final bid much higher then what he estimated. The client + builder had the first set of final drawings back in September of 2022 and had floor plans as early as last July. We are just having a hard time a understanding how timberworks is being held accountable for the project coming in over budget 4 months later while the client was making decisions based off the the builders estimated builder costs which is actually the most reliable information to work from since he is the one responsible for pricing out the project.
  B) The client also mentions that timberworks was not responsive which is also not entirely true. We received the email from the client on January 3rd telling us the project was over budget and that they were going in a different direction and requesting a refund. In that same email the client explains to us they we should not give out $300 a square foot as a estimated build costs to other clients because their final build costs were well above $300 a square foot which was a surprise to us since that is the number their own builder gave them and was the number relayed to us. Then for the builder to came back with a final estimate which we calculated to be over $500 a square foot is pretty concerning and unfortunate situation for everyone. To elaborate on this, timberworks responded to the January 4th email requesting more information and the builders proposal. After reviewing the proposal, we felt that bid was extremely high and found many line items that we thought were areas we could address. At that time, we asked if we could set up a meeting with all parties in involved including the builder so we can walk through the proposal together to try and find a solution. At no time where we included in any meetings regarding build costs or had any clue the builder came back 70% higher than he originally estimated. The client responded that they didnt have time and hired another designer and had already developed another set of drawings. We then asked if we could see the new proposal as well as look over the new designs so we could compare the two proposals to see how the builder was able to drastically lower his build costs to which the client declined to do. The other important piece of information here was that I was out of the country on vacation from January 18th to January 31st.
  C) We have also responded to the client recently and prior to receiving this BBB complaint email and have not heard back from the client.
  We very much enjoyed working with the clients and were excited to be a part of their project. This is a very disappointing outcome and as we have stated previously, we are committed to working with the client resolve this matter to their satisfaction and are currently waiting to hear a back from the client so we can find a solution.
  
  Sincerely,
  Timberworks Design

  Customer Answer

  Date: 02/16/2023

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

  Please be aware that our complaint is not related to the cost of the original build.  We accept that it was too much and we accept that we had to pivot as a result.  What we are interested in resolving is getting a refund for the services unrendered as a result of our pivot.  It is unfortunate that Timberworks did not have an out-of-office notification on their email that would have given us a better sense of their ability to respond and instead we were left with the impression that there was no intention to respond.  

  All this said, Timberwoks has gotten back to our emails as of 13 Feb and we will be reengaging with the company soon.  I will leave this complaint chain open until we have had a chance to reconnect.  Thanks, *******

  
  Businesses and Customers should be civil, courteous and polite in their responses to complaints. It is important to remain professional and productive when participating in the BBB complaint process.
  
  FAQ
  
  Regards,

  *******

   

   

  Business Response

  Date: 02/16/2023

  We feel that it was the clients decision take the extreme measures with filling with the BBB and believe its within our rights to continue this resolution process through the BBB plat form.  I would also like to note that prior to receiving this response today that client has made attempts to contact us directly outside of this forum to which that correspondence is attached to this response.  

  As previously stated, we would be more than happy refunding the client for the site visit which we estimated at 1.5 hours.  We would be willing round up to two hours in hopes of covering any other services the client believes or feels were services that were not rendered such as shop drawing review or fielding questions from builders during the construction process.  The clients has asked us what we think is fair and for all the reason previously described in our initial response we feel is a fair.

  We also feel that we spent a lot of time clearly detailing our response to the clients complaint and request that the client would try their best to do the same. On area of clairfication we would like to request is that the client gave a very rounded number and specific refund amount off of "their estimation". We would like to ask the client for a detailed description clearly defining how exactly they arrived on that refund amount.  We are trying very hard to be as clear and detailed as possible and hope the client can do the same so we can clear any misunderstandings and work towards a fair solution.  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 02/21/2023

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

  _______________________

  We appreciate Timberworks Design's efforts to engage with us through the BBB and have no problem continuing to pursue a resolution through this platform. As we see it, there are a few outstanding issues with the BBB exchange so far.

  
  

  Firstly, we do not agree with the characterization of contacting BBB as "extreme measures." The attached email thread on the previous reply from Timberworks Design did not include the full history of our email exchanges (which we did not attach due to privacy concerns) going back to early January, 2023. It was only after reaching out to BBB on 2/10/23 that we finally received a response on 2/13/23 - 5 weeks after our email from early January. Even if there was vacation time in between, there was no response for 10 days before the vacation and 13 days afterwards.

  
  

  Secondly, we would like some more explanation as to how the site visit is only estimated to be 30min. It would help to know how Timberworks Design arrived at this number considering we had planned a large 4BR timber frame home. We also don't think it is possible to drive from ***** to Richmond in 30min under the best traffic conditions so we don't agree with the travel time indicated. 

  
  

  Thirdly, the shop drawing review as described in the 2/15/23 BBB response sounds like at least some level of effort. We would appreciate an explanation as to why this portion of our previously paid services has been marked down to 0hrs.

  
  

  Lastly, we are assuming an estimate of $200/hr based on previous invoices so it would help to know if that is accurate as well once we agree on a final number of hours.

  
  Regards,

  ******* and ****

   

   

  Business Response

  Date: 03/02/2023

  1) You said there was no response for 10 days prior to my vacation which is a valid statement. I also think it's valid to point out my last response was on 2/16/23 and you got back to me today which is 3.2.23 which would mean it took you a total of 14 days for you to respond.
  2) You are building in a subdivision and not 25 acres of raw land. Given that you are building in a subdivision and not raw land means that much of the information needed to design the house is already pre-determined by the subdivision which in result doesnt require the time needed to walk a 25acre lot of raw land to figure out the best place to locate the house on the property. Again, your property was extremely straightforward, and I am more than happy to answer any specific questions you might have on why you think the process is more involved.
  3) I responded to your 3rd question in prior correspondence to which I added additional time to your refund. Did you see that? Again, shop drawing review and builder/construction consultation is included in the purchase of pre-designed drawing package. Further more I had many conversations with your builder both on the phone and through email which you are well aware of.
  4) Yes, that is accurate. Which would put your requested refund at 12 hours and I would like to understand how you arrived on that number?
  I am more than happy to refund you for the site visit and I put additional time in for your refund to try and help us come to an agreement which you have declined. I have also done work for you guys such as re-design your mater bathroom + electrical plan after getting drawings back from your interior design which I didnt charge you for. To that point I made lots of changes not included in your original markup drawings/defined scope of work. Is that something you can acknowledge? Or are we at a disagreement on that as well?

  Customer Answer

  Date: 03/06/2023

  Better Business Bureau:I have reviewed the response submitted by the business and have determined that the response does not satisfy or resolve my issues and/or concerns in reference to complaint # ********. Please add your rejection comments below; if you do not provide any details, your complaint will be closed as Answered. 

   

  We think the whole issue of response times is getting clouded by the time it takes BBB to process messages. We sent our last response on 2/21/23, but it sounds like Timberworks didn't get it until 3/2/23.

  Anyway, we think we are close to resolving the BBB complaint if we can just agree on the number of hours. 12 hours definitely seems like too high given the explanations offered so far. 

  Does it seem fair that there would most likely be a few hours worth of work to coordinate with our builder once they break ground and work toward completing the foundation and frame? Would Timberworks be amenable to 5hrs ($1000)?

  
  Regards,

  **** & *******