Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:12/02/2022

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  June of 2021 Martin Building Entreprize (******** Martin and **** ?) put in a concrete patio behind our house (cost: $13,500). There were cracks, puddling, weeds growing between the step and patio, rough concrete from the start. We contacted them in April (?) of 2022. They offered to remove the patio and have a concrete specialist pour a new one. We thought that was very generous and accepted their offer. We also agreed that they would handle any money transaction between them and the concrete professional, which they found for us. The project had to wait until September because ****, the one doing the removal, would not be in town until the fall. On the day of the removal, when one-third of the old patio was gone, ******** informed me by phone that he was going to mail us a refund for $8,000 and we would pay the concrete specialist, who had been to our house previously to discuss the project, but not costs. I got very upset because this was not what we had agreed to, and I had not spoken with the concrete person to confirm his price. Later that day, ******** informed me his assistant, ***********************, would be dropping off the check. When she arrived she wouldn't give me the check until I signed a "receipt" which stated "...you agree that the corrective work has been executed and you have received the check." See uploaded document for full text. As I said, she wouldn't give me the check until I signed the form. When paying the concrete specialist (who did a GREAT job), it turned out that I had to pay tax on the $8,000 because the payment "came from the homeowners." We have tried, with no success, to have ******** Martin pay the extra $800, but he will not. I have been delayed in filing this complaint because we've been hoping he would do the right thing, and also because I am caring from my spouse of 28 years who has Vascular Dementia. We would greatly appreciate any assistance in this matter. Since retiring early from teaching, every little bit helps. THANK YOU!

  

  Business Response

  Date: 12/02/2022

  Project details: Original pour date **** 2021
  During the initial conversation and inspection for this job we informed the client that the riverbed that is about 50 feet from the location of the wanted pour would be causing issues in the nearby future. She chose to agree to the bid regardless of the soft ground and projected issues. We did not hear from her at all until the spring of 2022. We do not issue regular refunds because jobs are brought to conclusion with the homeowners approval. Even though it was almost a year later and exactly in the situation we said would happen we agreed to address it because we are a family-owned business and treat the clients as such.
  
  
  Over the phone we agreed to demo (cost us $3500 min due to three days of labor and the 6 dump runs we did not charge her for) along with a complete refund for materials etc. 
  
  
    As soon as we showed up to the job site to look at the slab we realized that it was true that the river bed and winter weather had warped the slab like we said it would due to the ground natural irrigation of the slope. Once the demo was started (Tone) was concerned for the receptiveness of the issue. During multiple phone conversations and in person conversations we told **** that she should keep the refund and NOT pour again. We explained to her that the company chosen to re-pour ( due to us not being interested in repetitive issues) we are not connected to them at all nor would we be able to sub them out and it is much better for her to sign a new agreement with the other company to ensure she could protect herself from anything that that company may do while on her property or in the unfortunate event that this happens again. Which it will due to the landscape. 
  
  
  During the time that we were dealing with **** she was extremely volatile and disrespectful. We have phone records of repetitive calls where she called multiple times back to back screaming and swearing at T Martin. Most of the conversations made no sense and she was using offensive profanity and purposefully being argumentative to the point where ***** had to go to the property to discuss the issue in person because she was verbally assaulting the demo workers in between calls. While there ***** had to leave because **** became extremely angry and was crying and screaming about income taxes. We are adults and I will not list what was said but it was offensive and confusing to the point where ***** had to leave and advised **** to inquire about her worries about the refund to her CPA. Once her CPA confirmed that it wouldn't be labeled as income ***** went back. 
  
  After asking her what was going on due to her behavior **** admitted that her partner had dementia and her home life was increasingly stressful because the partner didn't understand why there were people at the property due to the health concern. She apologized to ***** and agreed that she understood why we were stepping away from the project. She was told at that moment again that it was against our judgement to pour again. We confirmed she had the info for another company and that they were in contact and she signed of on the job liability and "corrective work had been executed". 
  
  
  Due to the safety issue of the workers and her complete inability to act in a way that made us feel safe on her property during the demo we ultimately are glad that we could be of some service to **** but will not be accepting her as a client in the future. We do wish her the best. 
  
  
  We have incredible reviews and never dealt with an issue like this regarding our work. please see www.martinbuildingenterprize.com for reveiws
  Martin Building Enterprize LLC
  "Trust is just one of the things we build well."
  www.martinbuildingenterprize.com

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/31/2023

  ******** ******, Martin Building Enterprize LLC:
  Project details: Original pour date June 2021
  During the initial conversation and inspection for this job we informed the client that the riverbed that is about 50 feet from the location of the wanted pour would be causing issues in the nearby future. 
  
              The house (built nine years ago) and surrounding yard are on a flat location over 100 feet from a creek, which is down a hillside to the east.  The difference in elevation is at least 15 feet, possibly more.  The area for the patio is directly next to the house, on much higher, flat ground.  ******** and Tone (pronounced Tony) never once said the creek would be an issue.  Nor did they voice any concerns about the ground directly surrounding the house being too soft to hold a patio.
  
  She chose to agree to the bid regardless of the soft ground and projected issues. 
  
              We did agree to the bid of $13,500, and paid in full upon completion of the project, which was comprised of a patio and step-down walk around the patio and deck.  They instructed us to keep heavy furniture, etc. off it for a week, which we did, not even walking across it for 48 hours.  Again, neither ******** nor Tone suggested soft ground or other “projected issues.”
  
              They poured the patio and an adjacent step, and cleaned up the surrounding areas.  I was working when they did the pour.  We noticed (after I got home) that there were rough spots, uneven surfaces, and areas that looked like they were lower than other areas.  We raised these observations before the crew left, and Tone said that was the nature of concrete, that the rough spots would get smoothed out. Within two weeks there were multiple cracks along the top of the patio and gaps between the patio and the step.  In another week or so weeds were growing between the patio and the step.  There were also definitely puddles in several places.  (We have pictures of all this if you would like to see it.) 
  
  We did not hear from her at all until the spring of 2022. 
  
              During this time, I was teaching (remotely during the pandemic and then on-site at school) and becoming increasingly concerned about my partner, whose symptoms of vascular dementia were worsening.  To look at the patio made me feel very sad (we had liked ******** and Tone) and angry, but I didn’t have the energy to deal with it then.
  
  We do not issue regular refunds because jobs are brought to conclusion with the homeowners approval. 
  
              How they handle financial problems with clients is not our concern.  (See the next sections for discussions about money.)
  
  Even though it was almost a year later and exactly in the situation we said would happen we agreed to address it because we are a family-owned business and treat the clients as such.
  
  I finally got on the phone and called them in the Spring of 2022, about six or seven months later.  We thought they were very nice to come take a look.  Never once had they said, ever, that “the situation” is what they “said would happen.”  During their visit they said they had received “bad concrete” from the concrete company and would take care of it; demo it and re-pour, using a “concrete specialist.”  Tone told stories of other homeowners who were dissatisfied with their results (another patio with multiple cracks and a deck that needed new posts because the ones Martin Building Enterprize put in were twisting and pulling the deck down.)  I think he told those stories so we would feel comfortable with them taking care of the problem.  We agreed at that time that any money transactions between them and the concrete specialist would not involve us but go directly from them to the specialist.  ******** hinted that there may be more costs to us, and I stated that we were “not going to spend one more dime” on the patio.  He agreed to that.  No actual monetary amounts were discussed at that time.  They agreed to all this.  They also informed us that the demo and re-pour could not happen until September because Tone, the work-site supervisor, would be out of the area in Florida over the summer.  We stated that waiting until then was fine.
  Over the phone we agreed to demo (cost us $3500 min due to three days of labor and the 6 dump runs we did not charge her for) along with a complete refund for materials etc. 
  
  The above phone call never happened.  The situation was left as it was after our face-to-face meeting.  ******** never stated how much a demo would cost, nor did he/they know beforehand how many dump runs it would take to clear the area.  ******** and Tone found a concrete specialist, whom we met (and vetted: ***** ******.  If you ever need any concrete work done, call ****** Concrete – ***** is quite skilled and a seriously good guy!)  We didn’t know until later that ***** had never done any work for ******** or Tone.  When we met with *****, the old patio was still in place, and we discussed what a re-pour could look like and how long it would take.  It was *****’s understanding that all money transactions would take place between ******** and him, with us, the homeowners, out of the loop.  We did not even discuss costs at that time.
  
  As soon as we showed up to the job site to look at the slab 
  
              ******** never “showed up” at our home again.  All the demo work was done by Tone and his crew.
  
  we realized that it was true that the river bed and winter weather had warped the slab like we said it would due to the ground natural irrigation of the slope. 
  
              Again, they never, ever said the creek was an issue.  Ever.  (And if it is an issue why did the county allow for a house to be built on this site?!?)  The “natural irrigation of the slope” is fine for the deck and house foundation.  The location of the patio, step, and walk are on flat ground, directly next to the house.
  
  Once the demo was started (Tone) was concerned for the receptiveness of the issue. 
              
              I don’t even know what this means.
  
              The day of the demo arrived, September 19th.  When a third of the patio had been broken up, ******** called me and said they were just going to refund us $8,000.  This was not our agreement, the amount was never stated before this call, and we had not agreed to a refund situation.  I stated all this and became upset when he kept insisting that he was going to handle it his way.  He said he would put the check in the mail.
  
  During multiple phone conversations and in person conversations 
              
              I never spoke with ******** in person again.  We had several phone conversations on the 19th.  I don’t recall any on the 20th, but I’ve deleted old phone records so we may have spoken then too.  I believe it was on the 20th that Kayla came to our home with the check.  Although I called and texted ******** several times in the next couple of weeks, he did not respond.
  
  we told **** that she should keep the refund and NOT pour again. We explained to her that the company chosen to re-pour ( due to us not being interested in repetitive issues) we are not connected to them at all nor would we be able to sub them out and it is much better for her to sign a new agreement with the other company to ensure she could protect herself from anything that that company may do while on her property or in the unfortunate event that this happens again. Which it will due to the landscape. 
  
  Tone did say that we shouldn’t pour another patio.  When I asked why he stated it would crack again.  Tone did not mention anything about the creek or drainage around the house.  The concrete specialist who did a new pour the following week never stated anything about possible cracking, drainage problems, or the location of the creek (again, over 100 feet away and at a much lower elevation).  Since the new patio’s installation over four months ago, there have been no cracks, there are no rough spots, no weeds growing between the patio and walk, and only one small puddle on the walk.
  During the time that we were dealing with **** she was extremely volatile and disrespectful. We have phone records of repetitive calls where she called multiple times back to back screaming and swearing at T Martin. Most of the conversations made no sense and she was using offensive profanity and purposefully being argumentative to the point where Kayla had to go to the property to discuss the issue in person because she was verbally assaulting the demo workers in between calls. While there Kayla had to leave because **** became extremely angry and was crying and screaming about income taxes. We are adults and I will not list what was said but it was offensive and confusing to the point where Kayla had to leave and advised **** to inquire about her worries about the refund to her CPA. Once her CPA confirmed that it wouldn't be labeled as income Kayla went back. 
  
              This information is untrue and is an assault on my character.  In the initial phone conversation with ******** when he told me they were only going to give a refund (at this point we had not confirmed with the concrete specialist the cost of the new pour) I became upset.  I dropped one f-bomb and apologized for it.  I did not call ******** any names, I did not call “multiple times back-to-back screaming and swearing”, I did not use profanity or become “purposefully…argumentative.”  I did not “verbally assault the demo workers.”  (When the work was done and the concrete pieces cleared, Tone gave us both a hug and stated he was sorry the patio didn’t work out.)  In continued phone conversations with Terrance, I stated my reasons for being upset and he continued to state he was just going to refund us.  I realized I could not persuade him to acknowledge the validity of my position.
  
  When ******** said he would put the check in the mail, I stated we could pick it up, just tell us where we could meet him.  He then said he would have his assistant, Kayla, drop it off at our house.  At some point on the 19th or 20th, I spoke with a neighbor who stated we may have to pay taxes on the $8,000.  This upset me more, and I spent time getting in touch with our tax professional, to make sure this wasn’t the case.  I also contacted the concrete specialist to confirm the cost of the new pour.  I was relieved to hear it was $8000 and felt good that taking the check would cover the cost of the new patio.
  
  When Kayla arrived, I explained that I wasn’t upset with her, just the situation.  She was patient and sympathetic. She left and later returned when I had clarified the tax (no tax) issue.
  
  After asking her what was going on due to her behavior 
              
              Kayla did not ask me “what was going on due to (my) behavior.”  I did explain to her my concerns about my partner.  Again, she was patient and sympathetic.
  
  **** admitted that her partner had dementia and her home life was increasingly stressful because the partner didn't understand why there were people at the property due to the health concern. 
  
              The word ‘admitted’ makes is sound like I had previously covered up something, which I had not.  ******** was aware of all these factors.
  
  She apologized to Kayla and agreed that she understood why we were stepping away from the project. She was told at that moment again that it was against our judgement to pour again. We confirmed she had the info for another company and that they were in contact and she signed of on the job liability and "corrective work had been executed". 
  
              I don’t recall “apologizing” to Kayla because I had nothing to apologize for.  I may have stated I was sorry for being so upset (I was embarrassed to cry in front of someone I didn’t know.)  Kayla stated nothing about the job or the patio or whether we should pour again.  She said she didn’t really know much about the jobs; she just did the books.  She refused to give me the refund check unless I signed a “receipt.” I didn’t want to sign it but did so to receive the check and begin putting this experience behind us.
  
              The following week ***** Hedman poured the new patio.  He did not state anything about possible problems with the ground, drainage, or the creek.  He did state, before he did the job, that since the financial situation had changed (from between he and ******** to a ‘regular’ job for at customer) that he would have to charge us 10% tax.  He stated he hated to do that but to keep his books legal he had to charge us tax, and would understand if we wanted to cancel the job.  We stated we wanted to go ahead with the project, would pay him the full amount, and would get the remaining $800 from ******** and Tone.
  
              When I called ******** about payment of the $800 tax, he did not respond.  When I texted him, he did not respond.  I contacted ***** to see if he and any insight into how to approach Terrance.  This is when I learned he had never worked with ******** and Tone before.  ***** seemed upset that they were not repaying the tax amount as well.  He contacted ******** to ask about it, stating that he would talk with him ‘tradesman to tradesman’ and that Terrance’s behavior made them 'all look bad.'  When he got back to me, he stated he didn’t believe they would ‘do the right thing’ and refund us the full amount.  That’s when we decided to file a BBB complaint and contact the Washington State Attorney General’s office.
  
  Due to the safety issue of the workers and her complete inability to act in a way that made us feel safe on her property during the demo we ultimately are glad that we could be of some service to **** but will not be accepting her as a client in the future. We do wish her the best. 
  
              Again, this is an attack on my character.  At no time did I yell at or threaten Tone or any of his workers.  There were no “safety issues.”  Why would Tone hug us when he left if he felt threatened in any way?!?  We would not ever have called ******** for another job even if the hassle over payment had never occurred.  The original patio was not done well at all.  I wouldn’t trust the workmanship of any future job of theirs.
  
              It's been over four months since the new patio was poured and was a delight to use this past Fall.  There are no cracks, no weeds, no rough spots, and (as I stated before) only one small puddle on the walk.  (There are many more "seams" in the concrete than when ******** and Tone poured theirs.)  We look forward to enjoying this wonderful outdoor space for many years to come.
  
  We have incredible reviews and never dealt with an issue like this regarding our work. please see www.martinbuildingenterprize.com for reviews
  
              Of course they have “incredible reviews” on their own website.  They control the content of that.  Martin Building Enterprize, LLC is not listed on Yelp (where they wouldn’t be able to remove negative comments) and they are not members of the Master Builders Association (another place where the business owner would be held accountable for negative reviews, poor workmanship, and dissatisfied customers.  I also find it fascinating that none of the comments ******** stated in his BBB response were part of his response to the Attorney General’s office.
  
  Martin Building Enterprize LLC
  "Trust is just one of the things we build well."
  (No.  It is not.)
  
  ADDITIONAL NOTE:
  Since this job was done so well for $8000 (plus tax), why is it that ******** and Tone charged us $13,500 for such a poor outcome?  Technically, we should be asking for a full refund (another $5,500), but we’ll settle for the tax amount of $800, not that I have any hope of getting it.
   
  Thank you for your time.  Take care.