Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:12/31/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Hello,I ordered and paid for two machine sub plates from *****************, owner of Tosa Tool on 8-11.23.I was originally informed of 6-8 week lead time for making. I received the plates 12-13.23.Upon uncrating the boxes, it was apparent that the plates did not have the machined edge that was paid for and upon further inspection, the threaded holes would not allow a thread plug gage to enter into none of the holes. This is a machinist gage for measuring threaded holes to a proper fit which is industry standard and how the plates are made. It is also the thread fit that is promised by Tosa Tool "Our plates have *****? +/****** bores and 1/2-13 2B threaded holes", as per their FAQ page on their web site.I own a machine shop myself and instructed ********** to machine a ****** cut on the threads at time of making to ensure this would not be a problem in which he acknowledged before proceeding to make the plates. They were not machined correctly as instructed. I immediately brought this to his attention after receiving the plates and he continues to deny anything is wrong. Even though he was instructed to make the special cut in the process, he left that out of his work order so my guess is his employees did not know about it. Regardless of making the ****** cut in the machining as instructed, it is not indicated on the invoice. So that part would be verbal or email correspondence and probably not stand up in court.The fact that none of the edges are machined as paid for and none of the holes will allow a proper thread gage to pass is clearly not acceptable. If the thread gage would pass in the holes I would have accepted the job, but they do not.

  

  Business Response

  Date: 01/03/2024

  To whom it may concern: 

  ************************ has received the order he agreed to. This is a custom order, not of my design but his, completely. He provided all cad files and agreed to the terms on the invoice. He was even advised against the hole pattern he chose (my competitor ******** Machines design) because of the numerous obvious problems with it. One of them is that the bores being the same size as the threads, often push the top thread down when using a pin. I highlighted this problem and several other obvious flaws with this design numerous times. He disregarded my advise and chose to proceed with his design. 

  *********************** was advised that the edges of his plates would be flame cut, he chose machined edges. I ordered the steel to be saw cut rather than flame cut. His cad files did not show radii on the corners or beveling. He has a machine finished edge. 

  *********************** wanted the very flat and very finished best possible grind. I advised him that this would cost more. He proceeded with the super grind finish. This added time that I was not aware of as the grinder is short staffed and very backed up. 

  *********************** wanted the Hot Black Oxide for his plates to assist with rust. These plates are so large that I had to take them to ******* (2.5 hr drive) and wait for the oxider to get them in. He is also short staffed and took much longer than anticipated. This was a special setup for him, he had to reconfigure his tanks specially for this order. very expensive. 

  It is our standard practice to inspect the holes while being machined. Our during machining checklist shows that the ***-2B gage fit. I myself ran a machine s**** into at least 30 holes on each plate. I observed no difficulty doing so. These plates were very exceptional by all standards, and very expensive to make. 

  Mr *********** original quote from me was $10,998.74. My standard pricing on a job like this would be $11,241.30. *********************** worked me all the way down to $8400.35 for this job. This is bare bones cost. The steel alone was over 4k with the grind. *********************** has received a excellent value for his dollars spent. 

  *********************** can add a "****** cut" to the threads if he wishes to, he is a machine shop, with large cnc *****.  

  These plates passed our inspection and I never quoted a ****** cut ( it would add many hours to the cost). 

  I believe this is a full explanation. *********************** has the product he ordered. 

   

  Customer Answer

  Date: 01/03/2024

  Better Business Bureau:
  
  I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and have determined that this does not resolve my complaint.  For your reference, details of the offer I reviewed appear below.
  
  ********** is trying to justify to himself that he did an acceptable job because he accepted the job at less than his normal appraised value, according to him.

  As I stated before, the ****** cut that was instructed for him to perform and he agreed to per provided email copies, is not the main concern.

  I paid for the upgrade to add machined edges which was supposed to be just that, machined at his facility to a machined finish. Mine was saw cut as the plates come from the material supplier.

  I did not order the super grind as his original quotes for that were too much so he ordered from plate supplier that produced good finish grind over other suppliers as said be him.

  As stated before, the ***-2B gage will not pass a single hole in either plate which I am happy to get third party inspected to prove.
  
  Regards,
  
  *****************************

  

  Business Response

  Date: 01/03/2024

  ***********************, 

  You have stated several times that you are using the plates. If the threads are useless how are you using them?

  You have stated that the edges are no big deal "the least of your problems" and that you do not care, yet you continue to bring it up as if you cannot use your plates without the edges being CNC MILLED. The saw cut is just as good, as I recall you just didnt want them to come in with a FLAME CUT EDGE. I paid extra to have them sawed. 

  I apologize, I did not mean SUPER GRIND, you did get the PREMIUM GRIND as requested and your plates also were stoned and polished post machining, you have stated this is very nice and very acceptable. 

  I did see that you slid "****** cut" into the email where you paid for the engraving. ONE MORE TIME, I did not quote you a ****** cut, I did not include it in your quote, and it was not on your invoice. You did not get a ****** cut because it was not on the invoice. 

  We did inspect the holes at the machine with the ***-2B thread gauge, I did run a bolt through many holes before they went out to hot black oxide, I did not inspect them after. Is it possible that the oxide is causing the jam up? I dont know. I do know that if you put a 1/2-13 tap into a floating holder you can chase all the threads in about an hour on your mill. You have said that if you chase the threads you are using it just fine. 

  Now, you have stated that you want me to start from scratch and remake your ENTIRE ORDER thats worth over $11,000, please tell me the actual reasoning to do that.  Please advise.