Complaints

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• Initial Complaint

  Date:03/10/2023

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Summary:PatchBoyz was hired to complete some holes for an electrical job that was being completed at our home. During the estimate process, PatchBoyz gave us the impression that they were liaising with the electrical company, which is why certain changes were made to the requirements of two of the originally marked ceiling holes. When the electrical company arrived, they questioned why the holes that were cut differed from what they had marked. Follow up emails were sent to PatchBoyz and the electrical company to try to determine what had happened. PatchBoyz went back and forth between claiming that the change had been requested by the electrical company (which the electrical company denies having any record of) and claiming that they knowingly did not cut the holes as requested by the electrical company at their own judgement. We feel that we were mislead by PatchBoyz about their reasoning for changing the size of the holes, which resulted in an increased price for their services as well as leaving two unnecessarily large holes in our ceiling which will need to be repaired at our expense.Initially, we were requesting for PatchBoyz to come in and patch the holes to what was originally requested. However, based on issues in reaching a resolution to our request, we no longer wish to have them complete this work in our home. Instead, we are seeing a refund for services related to the cutting of the ceiling holes, as well as a refund of the *** charged on interest, which we have since learned is not a proper business practice.Detailed Summary:Friday, July 21 ************* completed marking, including sizes, for holes required. They recommended two companies to complete this work we were told that one of those companies, PatchBoyz, had worked with them before and would understand the markings as they were completed. Saturday, August 5 Staff from PatchBoyz arrived to take video and view holes for marking.Friday, August 11 *********** from Patchboyz, indicating that the quote may need to be adjusted as they were 'discussing an aspect of the quote with *************'.Friday, August 18 Estimate #2 from Patchboyz, change from the 4 ceiling holes to 7x7 ceiling holes, and the associated pricing adjustment with a note that they had completed the requirements gathering from ring'. We approved the changes to the estimate under the impression that ************* had been consulted and requested the change to the work from the initial markings.Saturday, August 26 PatchBoyz complete holes as indicated on approved estimate.Monday, August 28 ************* arrives to begin work and questions why the ceiling holes were cut larger than marked. Informed with them that we were told they had been consulted and requested this change and the technician had no knowledge of this discussion with PatchBoyz.Wednesday, August 30 Email from ***************************** to ************* Admin and PatchBoyz Admin. I just wanted to follow up quickly about the ceiling holes, as it sounds like there was possibly a disconnect about what was needed for this job. The original estimate had the requirement for two 4-inch holes for ceiling fixtures, but there was follow-up done with ************* to confirm this and it sounds like PatchBoyz was told that larger 7x7 ceiling holes were needed. On Monday morning I spoke with the team from Ring who confirmed that it was only the 4-inch holes that were required. From a cost perspective, this was a ~$480 difference in cost for us and will also require additional patching that what would have been needed if 4-inch ceiling holes were cut.Can you guys help me to understand where the requirement for the larger holes came from, as it doesn't sound like it came from the team at Ring who had marked the holes for the job. It was my understanding that this team approved it which is why I had approved the work to be completed.Wednesday, August 30 Phone Call from Patchboyz admin, in response to my email. Their admin indicated that the change in requirements was made from a conversation with the owner of *************. (Phone call included additional context, this is a summary only)Tuesday, September 5 Confirmation from ************* admin that she had checked on her end with the technician and rechecked her emails with to PatchBoyz and there was not requirement for any holes larger than 4".Thursday, September 7 Confirmation from ************* admin that there were not, at any point, asked by PatchBoyz about the ceiling holes.Thursday, September 7 Email from PatchBoyz to ***************************** I do want to make a bit of a correction note on the openings in the ceiling.When the electrician marks a spot where an octagon box is required, they do not know at the time of marking whether there is a stud in that spot. If there is no stud, we must enlarge the opening until we reach a stud because this box must be affixed and can not be left floating. The electrical box will be what your fixture is attached to, taking the full weight of that fixture hanging in place.Here's what would have happened if we did not do what we did and left the smaller hole where Ring requested. 1. They would not be able to install the box as it cannot float free 2. They would have to call us back in 3. We would come back in and charge you for a second hole plus another setup fee. so $400 setup + $350 for every new ceiling hole 4. **** would come back and maybe charge you for another visit Therefore... you would be looking at at least $1000 extra if we had not done what we did. This is standard procedure and is the most efficient way of doing things. We do this work very often.I'd be happy to provide an estimate. We must settle up on the first job before we can do any more work on your file. I am currently battling on your behalf with my superior to hold off on charging you interest. While I understand your questions and desire to understand the situation to its fullest, the work has been done and withholding payment doesn't really help any.Thursday, September 7 Email from ***************************** to PatchBoyz Thanks for your response.I don't think it's unreasonable for me to request clarification about the work that was completed before closing out the payment, especially since there is concern from my side that the size of two of the holes were not necessary. As I mentioned in a previous email, the larger holes resulted in a significant difference in cost, as well as creating a requirement for additional patching that would not have been needed if the smaller holes had been cut. If you are having issues with your superior, I'm happy to speak with them about my concerns as well.I've attached screenshots of the text from your estimate emails that indicate your team was 'discussing an aspect of the quote with *************' and had 'completed the requirements gathering from ring'. I had approved the work to be completed based on the representation by your team that they had discussed the job with ************* and confirmed the requirements. However, in my investigation of what happened, I'm learning that Ring had marked the smaller holes to be cut since my house is a bungalow and the team knew that they would have attic access and were able to reinforce the electrical box from above - meaning that there was no need for the larger holes to have been cut. When we spoke on the phone, you mentioned that there had been discussion with ***** about the requirements for my job - can you confirm if this conversation took place, and if so, with who? In discussion with a few folks from *************, they don't seem to recall having been contacted by your team to discuss the ceiling holes for my specific work.I'm willing to make payment for the work that was completed on August 26th, however I'd like to request that your company consider patching the 8x8 holes to the requested 4-inch holes free of charge as compensation for the error that was made in cutting the ceiling holes at this size.Friday, September 8 Email from PatchBoyz to ***************************** I've read through your email thoroughly and in no way do I dispute your right, shall we say, to understand why we made the holes in your ceilings that size and why you've been billed more for this service.In your email you make the following statement,"I'm learning that Ring had marked the smaller holes to be cut since my house is a bungalow and the team knew that they would have attic access and were able to reinforce the electrical box from above - meaning that there was no need for the larger holes to have been cut."For me this statement is critical because this was never said to Patchboyz. We submitted our video to *************, it was viewed by a few people, one was ***** who did your electrical work. Several discussions went back and forth between the two companies specifically about these holes and had that been said from the start we would have made 4" holes. For us, this is a very critical omission and it is standard procedure for Ring to present this to us, which they did not.Up until this point I have been battling on your behalf and trying to mediate this between all parties. I can no longer do so now that I know this was omitted.The work has been completed and our invoice is now overdue. I can speak with accounting to see if there is a chance they will reverse any interest charges but I would ask that payment for our services be made today.Wednesday, September 13 Email from ***************************** to PatchBoyz Ultimately, the issue is that your company completed incorrect work. ************* had marked the required holes in the ceiling and based on misleading statements in your companys emails about discussion with ****, I understood that the larger holes were required. When ************* arrived, they were shocked to see the size of the holes that were cut which is why it doesnt add up that there was discussion with their team about the ceiling holes. Initially, you had informed me that conversations with ***** had led to the hole size in the ceiling and now you are indicating that ***** was involved, when he is the one who marked the holes for 4-inches, as well was the one who pointed out to us that the larger holes were not necessary.Ive made a payment on the invoice, less the amount charged for the ceiling holes, as I still consider my concerns with the work that was completed to be outstanding. Once we have come to an agreement on a resolution for the concerns with that part of the work, we can close out the remainder of the invoice. Please provide me with contact information for your supervisor, as I would like to discuss the job and my concerns with them.As I mentioned in my previous email, I'm willing to complete payment for the work that was completed, however I'd like to request that your company consider patching the 8x8 holes to the requested 4-inch holes free of charge as compensation for the error that was made in cutting the ceiling holes at this size.In the meantime, I will be completing a detailed review of our experience with your company to be posted online, as well as submitted to the Better Business Bureau.Wednesday, September 13 Payment was made on the invoice for PatchBoyz since they had sent an update invoice and were charging interest. Did not pay for the holes in question as I felt it was not resolved. **NOTE: *** was charged on interest accrued Wednesday, September 13 Received a link from PatchBoyz to complete a formal complaint.Friday, September 15 Claims Conclusion Email from PatchBoyz to ***************************** After careful review of your file, weve come to the conclusion that this whole ordeal was due to a lack of communication. This stems from your comment:"I'm learning that Ring had marked the smaller holes to be cut since my house is a bungalow and the team knew that they would have attic access and were able to reinforce the electrical box from above - meaning that there was no need for the larger holes to have been cut."Patchboyz reply: For me this statement is critical because this was never said to Patchboyz. We submitted our video to *************, it was viewed by a few people, one was ***** who did your electrical work. Several discussions went back and forth between the two companies specifically about these holes and had that been said from the start we would have made 4" holes. For us, this is a very critical omission and it is standard procedure for Ring to present this to us, which they did not.Therefore, we will not accept blame for the matter. We will not use this email to point fingers either. While this is the final decision weve come to, we do appreciate your business and are in a position to help with your proposed solution. If you are to hire us for all the drywall repairs, we would agree to performing those repairs for you for free. If we are already in the home and setting up for the other repairs, it would not take us too much more time to repair these as well.That being said, we cannot work on your file without you upholding your end of the last deal. Payment was due in full upon completion. While I do understand your position, we have a strict policy not to assign any resources into files refusing payment. Once you make good on that invoice, we can estimate the repairs, and with your approval, can schedule a date to complete these repairs.Friday, September 15 Attempt to call the contact from PatchBoyz who completed the work, looking for an owner/manager with whom our complain could be discussed. Were told we would be called back but no call was made.Saturday, September 16 Message send to PatchBoyz on ********* looking for an owner/manager with whom our complain could be discussed. Monday, September 18 Voicemail to ***************************** from PatchBoyz threatening legal action for the unpaid invoice. (Voicemail included additional context, this is a summary only)Monday, September 18 Called back PatchBoyz, were told they would like all future communication to be completed over email. (Phone call included additional context, this is a summary only)Monday, September 18 - Email from PatchBoyz to ***************************** I tried calling 3 times this morning as I want you to know that we're taking this matter seriously. -On August 30th, 2023 you expressed discontent with the size of some of the holes which we explained were required in order to get to the joists so that the box could be fastened. You later explained to us that **** was going to go in the attic and move the boxes if they weren't in the right place. Not only did nobody tell us this (you or them) but ************* would still have had to make another hole (in asbestos containing drywall?) unless they planned to backframe it. This is not how they typically work nor did you or they make any mention of this -On Sep 13th, 2023 you filled out our claims form, which was requested to see if we could get more information and see what solutions you might propose. You wanted us to go and fix the holes we were required to make, for free.-On Sep 15th, 2023 I made an offer to you. Despite us doing our job exactly as we were required to do since the ceiling joist was not where the ************* marked hole was, we decided that we were in a good position to help. I made the offer that we would repair these for free if we were doing the repairs in your home.-On Sep 18th, 2023 we have yet to receive an answer to our proposal or even an acknowledgement of my email to you.What we did get was a ******** message from a *******************, whom I understand is your husband. -Please address our email.-Please understand that you are whom with we communicated for the project (other than a walk through), you signed and you made the complaint. While it is understandable that *** want to be a part in the matter, you are our client and we cannot play he said she said with ***. We will deal with you and *** can be present for any communications as is his right.-Please tell *** to stop with the fake claims that he calls us all the time to no avail. This is untrue. Perhaps he is calling a wrong number? ****** is wonderful and returns all calls. We could not ask for a better team mate.-Please pay your invoice as interest is accruing.-At this point, I've communicated everything we need to and request that your further communications be in written form to ****************************** I cannot have my team allocate any more time to going back and forth with you on a matter that has been settled. I know you're looking to save some money, but this behavior is unacceptable. PatchBoyz followed procedure and did not do anything wrong. If PatchBoyz had done something wrong, ************* would have had to call us back in. We're not perfect and do make mistakes, but this is not one of them. We own up to our mistakes.Please note that all uncollected invoices are sent to ********************** Solutions for collections. Once sent, the matter is out of our hands and UCM will liase with Equifax to leave a note on your file, affecting your score over time. Please note that PatchBoyz also reserves the right to lean a property with unpaid invoices.Monday, September 18 Payment made in full. **NOTE: Additional *** was charged on additional interest accrued.

  Business Response

  Date: 17/10/2023

  Please see my attached document breaking things down and explaining our proposed solution which we never received a reply to. 

   

  Yours in service,

  ******
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 21/10/2023

   
  Complaint: 20693575
  
  I am rejecting this response because the attached PDF is not related to my complaint.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****************************************

  Business Response

  Date: 23/10/2023

  Please see my attached document breaking things down and explaining our proposed solution which we never received a reply to. 

   

  Yours in service,

  ******

  Customer Answer

  Date: 31/10/2023

   
  Complaint: 20693575
  
  I am rejecting this response as I still don't feel that certain details of my complain have been addressed. 

  I understand that at this point, PatchBoyz is claiming that they were required to cut the holes at the size they were completed. However as I mentioned and proved via their own words in email, they do go back and forth between claiming that the change had been requested by the electrical company and claiming that they knowingly did not cut the holes as requested by the electrical company at their own judgement. For this reason, I continue to feel that we were mislead.

  I don't argue the fact that we did sign the work order they provided which indicates the work to be completed this way. I am however, unhappy with the fact that they gave me the impression that they had gathered these requirements from liaising with the electrical company which is not the case.

  I also don't dispute that PatchBoyz offered to fix the holes if we hired them to repair all of the holes that were required for the electrical job, but as I mentione, given the difficulty we have had with them in reaching a resolution, we do not feel comfortable to have them complete this work in our home. Which is why, at this time, we are seeking a refund instead. 

  In their response, PatchBoyz also fails to address the issue that HST was charged on interest, which we have since learned is not a proper business practice, and therefore feel this amount should also be refunded.

  Sincerely,
  
  ****************************************

  Business Response

  Date: 03/11/2023

  Hi *********,
  
  Thank you for your email. Sorry you're being dragged into this again. I thought our last answer would address everything, but that's ok. I appreciate you continuing to mediate for us.
  
  I have refunded **** for the *** on the interest (screenshot attached). That should not have happened and Ive reached out to accounting to see how that mightve occurred. 
  
  I can certainly understand ***** frustration and while I do not share her opinion as to who holds responsibility I am happy to touch on this further. 
  
  We have proof that we interacted with RING, although that is not the main matter at hand. These communications are confidential and I would not be willing to share them with ****. RING electric wishes to stay out of this and I cannot say I blame them. 
  
  At the end of the day
  Patchboyz sent an estimate for work. 
  The client signed. 
  The work was executed as per the quote. 
  
  **** dwelling on the potential other ways that she believes the job could have been done is not something Patchboyz can be held responsible for. 
  
  Everybody has a right to their opinion and we must respect that right. Our opinion, however, is guided by our profession, experience and Government regulations. 
  
  Does this make sense?
  
  Please let me know if theres anything else I should elaborate on for this response. 
  
  Thanks.
  
  
  Yours in service,
  ****** and...
  The PatchBoyz & PatchGirlz Team