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Business Profile

Divorce Mediation Services

Divorce Without Court: Westside Collaborative Law PLLC

This business is NOT BBB Accredited.

Find BBB Accredited Businesses in Divorce Mediation Services.

Complaints

Customer Complaints Summary

  • 2 total complaints in the last 3 years.
  • 2 complaints closed in the last 12 months.

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Submit a Complaint

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

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Complaint type

  • Initial Complaint

    Date:12/06/2024

    Type:Sales and Advertising Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    This business has scammed multiple people out of money without providing the services they were hired for. Consistently incompetent with scheduling errors, weeks if not months without responding to emails, many MANY mistakes on separation contracts, making it impossible to finish the process with them, etc. Personally attacked me on the phone, stating I had "trauma brain" when I was reasonably frustrated with her repeated mistakes. I paid for my half of the flat rate fee - the invoice states I was paying for "Separation Contract, Mediation, Court Forms, and Filing". We received two mediation sessions, but after 8-9 months of *** making mistakes, we had to do the rest on our own, including filing. We never received the other services that we paid for and, on top of that, we received a menacing email with a photo of their receipt from starting a small claims case to go after us for the rest of the money. The claim itself is full of lies and inaccuracies in an attempt to make themselves look better or have a stronger case. *** and her husband **** are running an incompetent, malicious, and infuriating business that has a history of ending up suing its own clients. If you look up their *********** reviews, as well as the other BBB complaints against them, you'll see that I am not at all alone in my grievance. At this point, I think they are dangerous for future potential clients and have no business making more people's lives as miserable as they've made ours. At minimum, I would like a refund.

    Business Response

    Date: 12/06/2024

    This couple was extremely complimentary until we asked them to pay their invoice (after more than a year unpaid). Then suddenly everything was wrong. 

    They were abusive - one interaction on 4/17/2024 with *** ******** left me literally shaking. She berated me for 39 minutes straight because of a single typo that we had already corrected. I just sat there trying to explain that yes there was ONE typo where a four was supposed to be a five, but we had fixed it. "Trauma brain" is a common phrase and our website says that we use trauma informed methods. It's not an insult - far from it - although I don't recall saying that to *** ********* Regardless, she demanded more and more free work, complaining all the while that we owed her even more. She refused to pay for months. Finally we filed a small claims case ******************** Court 24C1V31197UCX. 

    Our office provided more than the usual flat-fee service, which includes two mediation sessions, a contract, and court forms. *** ******** and her partner received all of this. They also argued for more, and received more free work. According to our files, *** ******** and her partner had a long three-person phone call with me on 12/18/2023, and another on 7/9/2024. *** ******** exchanged more than 50 emails with our office. And *** ******** and her partner had three in-person sessions with me on 12/18/2023, 1/8/2024, and 3/27/2024.Our flat-fee agreement only covers two mediation sessions, but *** ******** and her partner insisted on a third session, saying I hadn't done a very good job, and then they tried to meet again for a free fourth session, saying they thought they could agree if I just gave them one more free session. They were scamming me. 

    Filing court forms is not something we charge for.  Filing court forms is free in ************ Our business website has a link to the free filing service and I actually teach the weekly free class on filing free court forms at the courthouse every Tuesday. In my opinion, *** ******** is being disingenuous when she says she paid our office for filing - it's a free service. We've never charged. 

    **** and I talked and decided we're comfortable with only suing *** ******** for the unpaid portion of the flat-fee contract, although we believe she owes us hourly fees for going over the contract. It is my opinion that *** ******** treated me horribly hoping to start some sort of confrontation that she could use to get another refund. No one should have to be treated the way she treated me. I talk to a lot of people who are upset, but *** ******** went after me like some sort of drill sergeant in every interaction. She was extremely abusive and we are not giving her a refund. 

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/06/2024

     
    Complaint: 22651950

    I am rejecting this response because:

    Even in their response to this complaint, they are inaccurate and absolutely lying. We had two mediation sessions, not three. That phone conversation was addressing more than just a typo (even though this was probably typo/mistake #**-20). The number of emails back and forth only happened because of Lizs inability to fix or address whatever questions or corrections I had the first time. Im not sure what else Im supposed to do when Im trying to get a separation contract written correctly by someone I hired and they get it wrong over and over again. I just sit there and hope really hard that the repeat issues get resolved? If they would have done their job correctly, the many emails would never have happened. They lie over and over again to try to make themselves look like the victim, when they became much more of a stressor than the divorce itself. Theyre liars and thieves if theyre willing to try to sue us for services never rendered. 



    Sincerely,

    ***** ********

  • Initial Complaint

    Date:09/10/2024

    Type:Service or Repair Issues
    Status:
    AnsweredMore info

    Complaint statuses

    Resolved:
    The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.
    Unresolved:
    The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.
    Answered:
    The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.
    Unanswered:
    The business failed to respond to the dispute.
    Unpursuable:
    BBB is unable to locate the business.
    My ex and I wanted an easy divorce, so we hired ********* ***** from Divorce Without Court for her mediation service. In February 2024, she promised us to do a mediation, draft court papers, and file the petition. We paid a fee ($1599 for the mediation service and $314 for the court filing fee) and thought we were in good hands.10 days after the paperwork had been signed on 5.8, we asked if she had filed the petition. The initial "Service Checklist" claimed we would have the case number within a week of signing. She went silent. We tried to reach out a couple more times and finally got a response on 5.29. She then claimed the filing petition part was free, so she had no obligation to do so, and our contract had ended. She said we could do it ourselves. We didn't understand why she would say that because the initial service did not state, but we went along and begged her to help us. She agreed to file the papers. Then, 3 months passed, and we reached out to her again for the court case number on 8.12, she went silent for 2 weeks. We then believed we got scammed and disputed the charge with our bank. ********* reached back to us on 8.27 with a threat of an extra charge of $910 due to our dispute. After a long string of communication, all we asked her was for the court case number and we would cancel our dispute. We need her to finish the service she had promised us because we don't know what to do with the papers she gave us. Sadly, ********* did not try to help but gave extremely hostile and unethical behavior, false accusations, and a wrongful charge of up to $1,540. Now, we are scared that we are dealing with a scam lawyer who is trying to sue and charge us more money. We don't have any legal representative or perpetrator that tries to scam her as she claims in her emails. I attached a chronicle of supporting files for you to review ********* ******* behavior toward us. I hope you can help me and my ex out for the nightmare we are going through. Thank you.

    Business Response

    Date: 09/17/2024

    Response to  Complaint 22239249-F7427

    Hello

    Thank you for the opportunity to respond to the false statements provided by Tue ****** on September 4, 2024. Tue ****** is lying in her complaint. We are a mediator, not a law firm. As her own attachments show, she received all the services she paid for and many additional services.We noticed that her attachments do not support her statements, and so we did not duplicate what she provided. We supplemented with attachments that give context to the scam she is running.
    It is great that customers have the ******************** as a way to express disappointment, but people like Tue ****** are ruining the service for people who have a real complaint. Our website is **************************************************************************** and provides additional information to support that  we are NOT a law firm and we do not provide unlimited free services.
    Tue ****** already filed a false chargeback, which is fraud. She told ********** on August 28, 2024 that she received no services but she had five hours of mediation on April 9, 2024 and April 25, 2024. She also signed the third version of a 16-page contract, and she had all of the court forms completed and signed, as she provided with her complaint (which kind of makes it look like she thinks that if she adds a lot of attachments no one will read them to see that they support our case, not hers). Tue Nyugens September 4, 2024 complaint appears to be an attempt to try to set up a defense to a civil suit that we told her we would file on September 3, 2024. We don't like to do that but we have to be able to protect ourselves against fraud. 


    1.    Tue ****** has no reason to think she was charged for filing the petition. Our intake and our website states on the first page prominently, You'll also have a set of court forms that we have filled out for you, and we will file the petition for you for free. (There is a $314 filing fee that goes to the court). And, *********** at Divorce Without Court skips the pricey hourly fees and just files your petition and then sends your court forms to the court for free. Our handout provided to Tue ****** and her partner also says, Filing paperwork with the court after a petition has been filed is FREE in ************ You do not have to pay a lawyer to forward documents or finalize your case See attached. Finally Tue ****** and her partner were told the service was free via text sent personally to them, repeating the information on the website and the intake that they filled out. See attached.
    2.    Tue ****** has lied repeatedly to our service and about our service. She gave false statements to ********** when she initiated a chargeback for "no services provided. She exceeded the flat fee and attempted to receive help multiple times each day for months! For free! Then she scammed a bank, which cost us even more time and money. Now she wants a refund? People like her are the reason we cannot provide flat-fee services any longer. We were one of the only ones still doing flat-fee services in the area and now we have to stop because people take advantage. Her behavior is just not okay.
    3.    Tue ****** was told in writing that we could charge more for additional work if she becomes abusive, which she DID. We informed Tue ****** and her partner multiple times that exceeding the flat-fee services would require additional payment. She doesnt respect boundaries. She asks for endless free work. We have to be able to set limits. Her shenanigans are preventing us from helping our other clients.   
    4.    Tue ****** repeatedly calls us a lawyer and will not admit that we provide MEDIATION. Our website, handouts, emails, and texts all state that our office provides mediation. The rules for lawyers and mediators are completely different. Tue ****** appears to be trying to get a refund from a lawyer by listing the rules for lawyers and claiming we violated them. She just ignores us every time shes corrected. We are not a law firm. We do not follow the same rules as lawyers. Thats not a scam as she claims. She is scamming us. She seems to have started this process thinking that she could overwhelm our office with communication and then file a complaint saying we didnt represent her adequately. Its a known TikTok scam that a lot of law offices are dealing with. She just had the misfortune to try to pull her scam on a mediators office. We dont follow the same rules. We follow mediator rules and mediators provide a different service.
    5.    Tue ****** is trying to get us to pay out of pocket and file the petition for a second time after she failed to follow directions. *********** terms clearly state that if you contact the courts, then you need to continue to talk to the courts on your own, without us. See attached. We do not represent you like an individual lawyer would and we cannot negotiate with the clerks for you. If you treat the clerks badly, they will not file your paperwork. Your file will be lost repeatedly. This is a known risk that we tell people to avoid. Tue ****** treated our office very badly and the clerks seem upset with her as well. I can only imagine how she treated them, based on her interactions with our office!
    6.    Tue ****** contacted the BBB the day after she was given the information that we provided in response to her fraudulent chargeback. Tue ****** appears to be trying to find a way to protect herself from a civil suit. On September 3, 2024, our office emailed Tue ****** and her partner some of the evidence we found in our files that she had lied in her chargeback request to **********. We told Tue ****** that we were going to pursue a civil complaint. The next day, she filed this completely new version of events with BBB in which she pretends she has not already been told that she exceeded the flat-fee service and asks us to finish the job. She made the work much longer and more time consuming and she committed fraud.

    My wife and I are very upset by Tue Nyugens behavior. Divorce is a tough time. We have both been divorced before. We provide a low-cost flat-fee service for mediation because we want people to avoid having to pay a law firm hourly. We are not a law firm. We do not deserve this TikTok scam that Tue ****** has been following to the letter.
    Tue ****** incurred additional fees by ignoring our directions, abusing my wife, and committing financial fraud with her chargeback where she told a bank that after hours of services she wanted her money back because she alleged there were no services received! We wanted to think she just didnt understand our website, emails, texts, handouts, and other directions. At this point, however, given her persistence in misstating our service, we think shes intentionally harassing us and lying about our service to try to commit the TikTok freebie offer that people have been using against law firms. Were not a law firm. She picked the wrong service to try this scam that shes doing.

    Thank you for your time,

    /s/**** Steen  

    Customer Answer

    Date: 09/19/2024

     
    Complaint: 22239249

    I am rejecting this response because **** ******* statement contains many false accusations and incorrect details about us and the business we have been doing with them. In both statement to ***** and the BBB, they provide different misleading information with no back up evidence. We see this as their negligence and possible dereliction of duty and the unwillingness to resolve the problem with their client. I attached all the statements we have been received and submitting from/to ***** and BBB for you to review. 

    Sincerely,
    Tue ******

    Business Response

    Date: 10/10/2024

    Tue has lied so many times it's not possible to track all her many stories. But just to focus on one area, she said my wife was "hostile" and "unethical." She also claimed that we didn't finish with the clerks, when she was CLEARLY told that we COULD NOT finish with the clerks because SHE DID NOT FOLLOW DIRECTIONS. 

    Please find attached the texts, which very politely tell Tue that calling and texting and emailing six times between 6 p.m. at night and the next morning is too many times, and also that we can't do anything after she refused to follow directions and called the clerks. Tue's paperwork was already finished and signed. She was being rude. We were already helping her for FREE after our service was FINISHED and she called us six times in one night and didn't follow directions because she wanted her case number in 7 days, not 10. But we couldn't get her case number if she called the clerks! WE TOLD HER THIS MANY TIMES.  

    We cut off free work, very politely. In response she kept trying to get us to work for free and pretending she hadn't been told we couldn't help after she called. Then she started filing a chargeback and complaints with multiple agencies. Tue ****** is a nightmare customer. She didn't follow directions and she lied about us multiple times. 

    Tue ****** said my wife was "hostile" but you can see my wife was very polite. Tue said she received "no services" but she signed her paperwork and a contract after five hours of mediation. She filed a chargeback that messed up our bank account. Then she changed her story when we sent the bank her paperwork and started saying the extra free work that we were doing to be nice was owed to her. 

    Our service is for mediation, a contract, and creating court forms. Tue ****** had mediation, and she signed the contract and court forms that we made. Then she didn't follow directions and called us six times after 6 p.m. because she wanted to know her case number, which normally takes about 7 days, but in her case took 10. Then she started making up stories to get a refund. This is not okay behavior. We understand that divorce is a stressful time. We give a lot of ***** for people who are overwrought. Tue ****** seems to be straight up trying to get services for free. At the very least she lied about the "hostile" texts we sent. 

    She said we were hostile but actually when she received the sixth contact about the free paperwork in less than 24 hours, my wife said "Hi **** - We're happy to o that. To provide the best service, we send your court paperwork for free. It's a free service that requires no legal expertise. We have realized that people seem to have less value for my time once we enter the free part of the service. Our clients are great. Unfortunately it is not possible for me to respond to 2 phone calls, 2 texts, and 2 emails between 6 p.m. Tuesday and 1 p.m. Wednesday in a way that's going to make everyone happy. We don't want to charge extra - you're right that we said we'd send the number and you should have it by now. We also don't want to have me be overwhelmed by the energy around a service that we aren't' charging for and that you could do yourself for free. Finally, we've found that the clerks get upset and delay paperwork with clients who contact them, putting me in the position to trying to mediate between an upset client and an upset clerk. when I really don't have the info to do that adequately. To balance that we can give you the paperwork we made and you can send it to the court yourself for free. It's a free zoom call."

    All of the information in this very politely worded text had already been told to Tue ****** in an in person meeting, and it was in handouts given to her and her partner. It's also on our website in multiple places. She knew. She just wanted to yell and scream and try to get us to do the work for her even after she had called the clerks, made them angry, and made it impossible for us to keep helping her FOR FREE after the service she paid for (and then filed a chargeback) was FINISHED. 

    Tue ****** is not truthful about my wife being hostile with her, or about anything else. This is just an aggressive attempt by a nightmare client to bully a small business into free work. Thank you - **** Steen 

    Customer Answer

    Date: 10/17/2024

     
    Complaint: 22239249

    I am rejecting this response because:

    After reading **** ****** latest statement, I hope the BBB can see his non-cooperative intention toward solving this case with us. He still provides many false accusations without substantial evidence supporting his statement. Our story has never changed in all the statements, including the ones with our bank ****** On the other hand, **** ***** never gives a concrete answer to the most important questions of this case: did they file the petition between April and August?  and do they have the case number? He provides irrelevant information to steer away from answering those very crucial questions. It doesnt seem he carefully reviews our statements before writing back his response. His statements dont contain any substance but emotion to distract their dereliction of duty. 

    We never ask them to finalize our divorce as they stated in their previous statement. We only need them to file the petition and provide us the case number. They hold $314 of the court filing fee from us and still refuse to give a concrete answer about the case number. A business cant end its free service when it obtains the money for the service it said it would provide. Even if that money goes entirely to the court and not the business, that does not make that service free to the client. Especially since we were charged for that in the invoice. We cant send the $1599 court papers for free without that case number, which is clearly stated in their own Service Checklist. 

    After a long month of working diligently on the dispute with our bank ****** we finally won the case and got a full refund of $1913. This indicates ***** saw the unfoundedness and inconsistency in Steens statement and closed the case in our favor. I had provided these ***** files to the bureau for review. 

    Reading **** ****** latest BBB response, we have realized Divorce Without Court will not admit to their wrongdoing and will continue to harass us. They have already sent us a second frivolous invoice and a small claim court notice. Now, we dont want another response from ***** within this BBB case anymore because the dispute has been solved by our bank and their intention is clearly in bath faith. The only request we ask for the BBB is to keep these statements public so future clients can see how inappropriate and unethical Divorce without Court treats their clients. I still provide my rebuttal to **** ****** latest statement. This rebuttal contains more evidence to prove how baseless his accusation is toward us. I hope the BBB can see our side and close this case in our favor. 

    Sincerely,

    Tue ******

    Business Response

    Date: 11/25/2024

     
    Dear BBB:

    Below is the details on our availability for a Mediation Hearing:

    Please Place list any dates you are specifically NOT available in the next 6 weeks: 
    I am not available November *****, or December *****. I am not available December 2-3, December 13, or December 20. 



    Please Place an "X" next to the Day of the Week you are Available and work best for you: 

    ____Mon. ____Tue. __X__Wed ____ Thurs. ____ Fri.

     
     Please Place an "X" next to the Time  you are Available and work best for you: 

    ____ Morning _X___Afternoon 

    I understand that BBB will do its best to accommodation the information I have selected.  I understand that mediations are scheduled to start between the hours of 8 am and 3 pm, and must conclude by 5 pm.

    Thank You.

    Customer Answer

    Date: 12/07/2024

    To Better Business Bureau,

    I have reviewed the response made by the business in reference to complaint ID ********, and find that Mediation could work to resolve the issue. However, the merchant has filed a small claim lawsuit against us after we won the dispute with our bank (see attachment), so I'm not sure if they are willing to do mediation within the BBB scope. If they do, we are willing to give it a try. If they don't, we want to have this case public so future customers can see the action they have done toward their clients like us. 

    - Please list any dates you are specifically NOT available in the next 6 weeks: 
    December is actually not a good month for us since we have to deal with holiday season stress. We prefer January.

    - Please place an "X" next to the Day of the Week you are available and work best for you: 
    X Wed X Thurs. X Fri.

     
    - Please place an "X" next to the Time you are Available and work best for you: 
    X Afternoon (preferably after 2pm)   (mediations are scheduled to start between the hours of 8 am and 3 pm, and must conclude by 5 pm)


    I understand that BBB will do its best to accommodate my availabilities above.

    Thank You.

    Regards,

    Tue ******

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