Complaints

This profile includes complaints for Canvas Credit Union's headquarters and its corporate-owned locations. To view all corporate locations, see Find Local Branches.

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• 

  Canvas Credit Union

  9990 Park Meadows Dr Lone Tree, CO 80124-6739

• 

  Canvas Credit Union

  12501 E. 17th Ave. Unit A Aurora, CO 80045

• 

  Canvas Credit Union

  11061 S Parker Rd. Parker, CO 80134

• 

  Canvas Credit Union

  1512 Larimer St Apt 28 Denver, CO 80202

• 

  Canvas Credit Union

  2027 S University Blvd Denver, CO 80210-4318

The complaint text that is displayed might not represent all complaints filed with BBB. Some consumers may elect to not publish the details of their complaints, some complaints may not meet BBB's standards for publication, or BBB may display a portion of complaints when a high volume is received for a particular business.

• Initial Complaint

  Date:08/02/2024

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  My mother took out a HELOC loan on her home. I did not sign for this first HELOC. She then, a few years later took at a second HELOC to pay off the first HELOC and $32,000 in credit card debt. She needed the additional income to qualify for the second HELOC. So, I cosigned on the second HELOC. In the end, Canvas did pay off the credit card debt, but failed to pay off the first HELOC of $100K. They also failed to lock down the second HELOC and my mother spent down the remaining $132K second HELOC. She was paying on both HELOCs. However, she passed on February 9th 2024. I inherited the the home to which, these HELOCS are attached. Despite the fact that Canvas did not do their job of paying off the first HELOC of $100K and then, also did not lock the second HELOC of $132K, Canvas is now expecting me to pay off both of those HELOCS. I do not see this as fair, as Canvas simply did not do their job. What transpired should not have been possible, had Canvas done their job s agreed upon. Now, they are holding me responsible for ALL of my mother's debt, with respect to the two HELOCS, her credit card and her ovedraft protection. I am on SSDI and do not have the financial ability to pay my mothers debts. Canvas has proceeded to take any money that goes into my Canvas accounts to pay my mother's debt. The only income I have is the $3072/month from SSDI. I am also 62 years old. This is not sustainable from my my perspective. I have since, opened up a Chase **** account and redirected my SSDI deposit to that account. Please advise as to my rights and how to handle this complex situation. I am available at ************ or *********************** Text is also good.

  Business Response

  Date: 08/14/2024

  Canvas has spoken with **************** several times in the last two years regarding her concerns. We have detailed notes and documented conversations with her regarding the loan in question, and it is Canvas position that **************** advanced the funds she is disputing and is responsible for repaying the loans. Canvas has offered **************** options for re-payment,but she has been unable to follow through on those options. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:08/01/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I have been a member in good standing of this credit union for over 30 years. On June 21, 2024, I went into the branch on 8th and Colorado Blvd and deposited a check from my insurance company to have hail damage repairs made to my roof in the amount of *********. On July 17, 2024, I also went to the same branch and deposited a check from the same insurance company for the completed work on my property in the amount of ********. As of today, 8/1/2024 those checks have not released, and my account and my funds are not available to me. The credit union has been holding my money and using it for their benefit and I am unable to use my funds for over a month. On July 21, 2024, I went to the same branch and deposited 2 separate checks into my accounts from the same insurance company in the amounts of ********* and 16, ****** and was told by the teller that the funds would be released in 2 days. What is the difference in the deposits. Why isnt there some consistency in the way business is handled at the branch/credit union when the checks came from the same insurance company? Today when I called the ********** number, I was told that they only handle online checks and could not explain why the checks were handled differently. They have put a hardship on me because they are greedy. The Canvas Credit Union moto is people helping people. ,, but their actions show credit union helping themselves to your money. Their philosophy is "to stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our members", but their actions show standing on the shoulders of our members while we line our pockets. I need them to get some policies in place, so members are held hostage by the whims of tellers taking their deposits and I need some to reimburse me for the hardship Ive incurred because they money was held for over 31 days for not good reason and with no explanation. These crooked banking practices have got to end, they are hurting the public. I feel like I'm dealing with **********.

  Business Response

  Date: 08/12/2024

  Canvas reviewed ********************** complaint, we attempted to reach her by phone on August 6th and August 8th.Voicemails were left each day for her. We are happy to answer her questions and encourage her to contact Canvas directly. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:07/19/2024

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Got a bill from PAYPAL *DUBINHO **************************. They used the PayPal name to get my bank to release funds from my credit card. I had not made a purchase and my credit union paid them $400 from my credit card that I had put a stop on and moved all my money from that account. My back Canvus credit union refuses to put the money back in my account. Seems there are others that had the same experience. I pretty sure this company is using the name of PayPal to scam others. Probably not a PayPal issue but probably need to report this to the BBB. Apparently, my bank isn't going to do anything about this. They just say the money is gone and nothing they can do about it. This transaction took place on July 8th. I put a block on the card on the 6th and move all but about $50 in that account they could not use my card to complete the transaction. ****** went ahead and paid them from my checking account. I've talked to them many times and reported it as fraud, but they refuse to put the money back in my account, they said that I had overdraft protection although they charged me $30 for insufficient funds.

  Business Response

  Date: 07/31/2024

  Canvas spoke with ******************** and we feel his concerns have been addressed. If he has further questions we encourage him to reach out to us directly. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:07/17/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Every month, this company my car loan is through pulls some kinda c*** about my car payments not being made. One month its a payment from a few months prior. The next, its a payment from 2022. I have fought over & over & spoke to plenty of supervisors with no help whatsoever. I have sent proof every time of my payments being taken from my checking account. Still I get no call backs & no resolution. Now theyre saying Im over $1600 behind on my car and are threatening to repo. I have no fight left in me & need help. This company needs to be reported as fraud!!!!

  Business Response

  Date: 07/30/2024

  Canvas spoke with Ms. ***** to review her account history; unfortunately, she was unwilling to provide further information to help us understand her claims.Canvas is available to Ms. ***** if she would like to continue working towards a resolution and we would encourage her to reach out us directly. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/30/2024

   
  Complaint: 22004054
  
  I am rejecting this response because: I have sent them proof of my bank statements over and over again, proving the payments were never missed. They failed to help me, as always. & I will attach proof of these emails I sent directly with the woman I was working with. This company has pulled this same situation on a few other people whose complaints I read on the BBB site. They have since taken my car, illegally. Considering I have paid. Please see the attached emails I sent, repeatedly. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****************

  Business Response

  Date: 08/12/2024

  We have reviewed Ms. ******* response, the attachment she sent is a screenshot and we noticed the Canvas email address in the screenshot is not a valid email address for anyone or department at Canvas. We are happy to assist her and would appreciate her reaching out to Canvas directly. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/12/2024

   
  Complaint: 22004054
  
  I am rejecting this response because: this is absolutely ********. They want me to reach out to them directly but for what? I have tried for months. They are fraud!!!!! I have thousands of emails I sent over & over again. Many of which, I got a response for from the person at canvas!!!!! I want my car back or my last payment back. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****************

  Business Response

  Date: 08/20/2024

  Canvas is willing to discuss Ms. ******* concerns with her directly. She may contact us at any time. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/20/2024

   
  Complaint: 22004054
  
  I am rejecting this response because:
    Again, theyre fraud. Theyre criminals. Theyre liars. I will not accept anything other than my car back or the money back. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ****************

• Initial Complaint

  Date:07/15/2024

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Since opening this account I have been victim of impersonation, frdulent charges which the employee's would not investigate due to a "60 day dispute period", along with the reason being that my debt card was present. Even though I have proof of myself being in an alternative location. I feel very taken advantage of by this credit union and feel as if I am not being taken seriously. When I called the police to report I have not only the police officer in the dispatch call. Tell me that it belonged to a certain county.After contacting that county or city and reporting, I was not helped and was disregarded. I then decided to put in my report online. Where I found that the dispatchers were in fact transferring me to the wrong department each time that I called, which could possibly be the route reason for no resolution and no consequence to the credit union. I did submit this to the county.I had to change my account as if not my debt card being used then it was my account info ie: account and routing #. Due to the fraudulent activity reoccurring so often I did request that a new account be issued to me with their new account number. Once the new account was issued I did lose all access to the previous statements and was told by the credit union that without a police report I was not able to obtain them again.

  Business Response

  Date: 07/26/2024

  Canvas researched ****************** complaint and we were able to speak with her. Canvas explained our position regarding her debit card charges and we are working with her to assist her to gain access to her statements. ***************** may reach out to Canvas directly with further questions. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:07/14/2024

  Type:Order Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I Am not liable for this debt with Canvas Credit Union. I do not have a contract with the collection agency, they did not provide me with the contract as requested.

  Business Response

  Date: 07/26/2024

  Canvas reviewed the contract and loan documents for *********************** and determined that his signature is present on the documents. We also reviewed past correspondence from him, and we have spoken with him on several occasions.We attempted to reach ************** regarding this complaint and as of the writing of this response we have been unable to reach him. If ************** has further questions, we encourage him to reach out to Canvas directly. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:07/05/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  My insurance totaled our cars due to a hail storm. Our insurance has been requesting from Canvas a letter of guarantee on multiple occasions at which our adjuster just gets a sorry we are behind on these documents response in the meantime our other cars have been taken care of for weeks already with other lenders. Meanwhile Canvas is racking up extra fees! So unprofessional and inappropriate!

  Business Response

  Date: 07/12/2024

  Canvas researched Mr. ********* concerns and we have attempted to reach him to apprise him of the current status of his insurance claim and loan with Canvas. As of the writing of this response we have been unable to reach him. We will send a written explanation of the status to his home address on file with Canvas. We encourage ******************** to reach out to us directly with any questions. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/26/2024

  Type:Customer Service Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  told i was approved for a skip payment, made the payment that was required to skip the next payment PLUS CANVAS TOOK THE $15 SKIP FEE! now 3 days later i called because the skip was still not reflecting in my account, now they are saying my account needs to be current to do the skip? But you took my money and the skip fee just 3 days ago! If this is NOT resolved asap i will be contacting an attorney! Plus doing a dispute with my card.

  Business Response

  Date: 07/03/2024

  Canvas reviewed Mr. ******* complaint, we were able to speak with him the same day this complaint was made and explained the process. The payment skip has been processed and **************** has been made aware of the next due date. 

• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/22/2024

  Type:Billing Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  I am filing this complaint against Canvas Credit Union regarding their handling of my recent vehicle repossession and subsequent communication. On May 25, 2024, my vehicle was repossessed by Canvas Credit Union due to alleged delinquency in payments. Since then, I have been attempting to seek clarification, transparency, and resolution from Canvas Credit Union regarding the repossession process, fees incurred, and communication practices.Despite multiple attempts to communicate and resolve the issues, Canvas Credit Union has failed to provide satisfactory responses or transparent explanations. The lack of transparency and timely communication has resulted in confusion and financial burden on my part.Specifically, I seek clarification on the following points:The exact repossession policies and criteria used by Canvas Credit Union, including any changes to historical payment policies.A detailed breakdown of all fees associated with the repossession of my vehicle, including the $480 repossession fee and $223 storage and redemption fees.Clarification on Canvas Credit Union's notification policies, particularly regarding the Right to Cure letters and repossession warnings.Proof and verification of Canvas Credit Union's claims of attempting to communicate and resolve customer grievances, as they have alleged in their response to regulatory bodies.

  Business Response

  Date: 07/01/2024

  Canvas reviewed Ms. *********** complaint, we attempted to contact her at the number we have on file, however we were unable to reach her by phone. ************************ has recently been in email contact with Canvas, she has asked that we only communicate with her via email. We will continue to engage with her to address her concerns. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/01/2024

   
  Complaint: 21887618
  
  Dear ************************,
  
  Thank you for forwarding Canvas Credit Unions response.
  
  While I appreciate that Canvas has acknowledged my preference for email communication, their response does not fully address my primary concerns regarding the repossession fees, the lack of transparency, and inconsistent procedures.
  
  I am not satisfied with their efforts at this time and wish to keep the complaint open until these issues are adequately resolved.
  
  Best regards,
  
  ***********************************
   

  Business Response

  Date: 07/11/2024

  Canvas has been in communication with ************************. We will continue to work with her to address her concerns. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/12/2024

   
  Complaint: 21887618
  
   Dear ************************,
  
  Thank you for the update. While Canvas Credit Union claims they are continuing to work with me, I want to clarify that many of my key concerns remain unresolved. Here are the main points I would like to emphasize:
  
  Lack of Detailed Breakdown of Fees: I have repeatedly requested an itemized invoice for the $480 repossession fee, which they have failed to provide. This lack of transparency is a significant concern.
  
  Delay in Communication: Despite reaching out on multiple occasions, Canvas Credit Union delayed providing crucial information regarding the location and retrieval of my vehicle, which led to unnecessary storage fees.
  
  Miscommunication and False Claims: Canvas Credit Union falsely claimed they contacted me regarding the June 4th complaint. I have no missed calls or voicemails from them, and my voicemail is not full.
  
  Failure to Provide Receipts and Adequate Documentation: I requested a receipt from the third party responsible for the repossession fee. This request has been ignored, raising questions about the legitimacy of the charges.
  
  Inconsistent Procedures: There was no clear explanation provided for the deviation from past interactions regarding repossession procedures.
  
  Improved Communication Practices: I requested that all important notices be emailed to me due to my frequent travel, but this has not been implemented, leading to further communication issues.
  
  I am willing to continue discussions with Canvas Credit Union to resolve these issues, but I need concrete actions and solutions rather than generic responses.
  
  Thank you for your assistance in this matter.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************************

  Business Response

  Date: 07/12/2024

  We feel we have addressed **************************** concerns appropriately, and we will not respond to repeated requests for the same information. If she has a concern not relating to the issues previously raised we will respond.
  

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/12/2024

   
  Complaint: 21887618
  
   Dear ************************,
  
  Thank you for the opportunity to respond to Canvas Credit Union's recent message regarding my complaint.
  
  I acknowledge that Canvas Credit Union believes they have addressed my concerns. However, I still have unresolved issues that have not been adequately addressed:
  
  Lack of Transparency and Documentation: I requested an itemized invoice or receipt from the third-party company responsible for the repossession fee, which has not been provided. Canvas mentioned a flat fee and a fuel charge but did not provide documentation to substantiate these charges.
  
  Communication Issues: Despite their claims, I did not receive any direct communication or attempt to resolve my complaint filed on June 4, 2024. I have checked my call logs and voicemail, and there is no record of a call from Canvas during that period. I am prepared to provide my call logs to demonstrate this.
  
  Policy Changes and Consistency: I sought clarification on any changes in Canvas's repossession policies and the reasons behind the deviations from past interactions. This has not been addressed satisfactorily.
  
  Email Communication: I requested that all significant notices and correspondences be sent via email due to my frequent travels. Canvas has not committed to this, which is crucial for timely and documented communication.
  
  Additionally, the issue of the title transfer initiated on May 30, 2024, remains partially unresolved. Although ******************* provided tracking information on July 9, 2024, the delay in processing has not been adequately explained.
  
  I appreciate Canvas Credit Union's efforts so far, but I believe these concerns need to be addressed to reach a satisfactory resolution.
  
  Furthermore, its worth noting that *********************** sent me a separate email stating the same message verbatim, indicating a blanket refusal to address these unresolved issues.
  
  Thank you for your assistance.
  
  Sincerely,
  ***********************************

  Business Response

  Date: 07/26/2024

  We feel we have addressed **************************** concerns appropriately, and we will not respond to repeated requests for the same information. If she has a concern not relating to the issues previously raised we will respond.

  Customer Answer

  Date: 07/26/2024

   
  Complaint: 21887618
  
   Dear ************************,
  
  Thank you for the opportunity to respond to Canvas Credit Union's recent message regarding my complaint.
  
  I acknowledge that Canvas Credit Union believes they have addressed my concerns. However, I still have unresolved issues that have not been adequately addressed:
  
  Lack of Transparency and Documentation: I requested an itemized invoice or receipt from the third-party company responsible for the repossession fee, which has not been provided. Canvas mentioned a flat fee and a fuel charge but did not provide documentation to substantiate these charges.
  
  Communication Issues: Despite their claims, I did not receive any direct communication or attempt to resolve my complaint filed on June 4, 2024. I have checked my call logs and voicemail, and there is no record of a call from Canvas during that period. I am prepared to provide my call logs to demonstrate this.
  
  Policy Changes and Consistency: I sought clarification on any changes in Canvas's repossession policies and the reasons behind the deviations from past interactions. This has not been addressed satisfactorily.
  
  Email Communication: I requested that all significant notices and correspondences be sent via email due to my frequent travels. Canvas has not committed to this, which is crucial for timely and documented communication.
  
  Additionally, the issue of the title transfer initiated on May 30, 2024, remains partially unresolved. Although ******************* provided tracking information on July 9, 2024, the delay in processing has not been adequately explained.
  
  I appreciate Canvas Credit Union's efforts so far, but I believe these concerns need to be addressed to reach a satisfactory resolution.
  
  Furthermore, its worth noting that *********************** sent me a separate email stating the same message verbatim, indicating a blanket refusal to address these unresolved issues.
  
  Thank you for your assistance.
  
  Sincerely,
  ***********************************

  Business Response

  Date: 08/02/2024

  Canvas has a contracted flat fee with our vendor. We have provided the following breakdown of charges to ************************ in past communications. 
  

  $450.00 flat fee

  $30.00 fuel charge

  $480.00 Total

   

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/09/2024

   
  Complaint: 21887618
  
  The business has responded with the same information as before, once again failing to provide the itemized invoice or receipt I requested. Simply stating a contracted flat fee doesn't address my specific request for documentation. This avoidance is problematic because without proper documentation, there's no way to verify the accuracy or fairness of the charges.
  
  Sincerely,
  
  ***********************************

  Business Response

  Date: 08/22/2024

  Canvas has responded to ************************ with a consistent message, at this time we consider the matter resolved and closed. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 08/22/2024

   
  Complaint: 21887618

  
  Dear ************************,
  
  Canvas Credit Union's response continues to ignore my specific request for documentation, which is not baseless but a standard expectation for transparency in financial matters. Their consistent refusal to provide an itemized invoice or any concrete documentation raises serious concerns about their commitment to transparency and accountability.
  
  In addition to the documentation, I have also sought clarity on other matters related to this issue, which have similarly been met with avoidance. By evading these requests, Canvas seems to be deliberately avoiding transparency, which is troubling and suggests there may be more to hide. I reiterate my request for proper documentation and clear communication, as these are crucial to resolving this matter.
  
  Sincerely,
  ***********************************
   

• Initial Complaint

  Date:06/16/2024

  Type:Service or Repair Issues
  Status:

  AnsweredMore info

  Complaint statuses

  Resolved:

  The complainant verified the issue was resolved to their satisfaction.

  Unresolved:

  The business responded to the dispute but failed to make a good faith effort to resolve it.

  Answered:

  The business addressed the issues within the complaint, but the consumer either a) did not accept the response, OR b) did not notify BBB as to their satisfaction.

  Unanswered:

  The business failed to respond to the dispute.

  Unpursuable:

  BBB is unable to locate the business.

  Made a payment on my vehicle on time with a proof of payment. I also saved this information and sent it in to these criminals and they still repossessed my vehicle. I had to get my vehicle out of the tow yard which cost me a total of 3700 dollars. They lied about my payment not being on time and they lied about me not making a payment.

  Business Response

  Date: 06/27/2024

  Canvas reviewed Mr. ********* complaint. We attempted to contact him to discuss his complaint and we were unsuccessful. If he would like to discuss his concerns, we encourage him to reach out to us directly. 

  Customer Answer

  Date: 06/27/2024

   
  Complaint: 21857560
  
  I am rejecting this response because: 

  There has been no communication attempts made by these scum bags and liars. If they couldnt reach me they could very well have left a voicemail and message so I could get back to them. 
  
  Sincerely,
  
  *****************************